Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello everyone, and welcome to the 148th episode of the Atlas Society. Asks, my name is Jennifer Anju Grossman. My friends call me Jag. I'm the c e o of the Atlas Society. We are the leading nonprofit, introducing young people to the ideas of a rand in creative ways, including animated videos and graphic novels. Today we are joined by Larry Correa. Before I even begin to introduce our guests, I wanna remind all of you who are watching us on Zoom, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube. You can use the comment section to type in your questions. Go ahead, get started, and we'll get to as many of them as we can. Our guest, Larry Correa, is a multiple award-winning nationally best-selling novelist and popular blogger who often writes on issues involving the Second Amendment, uh, gun laws, self-defense for, uh, national publications. His famous essay and opinion on gun control was a viral internet sensation with over a million reads, his latest book in Defense of the Second Amendment. Uh, he hits hard on why gun free zones are more dangerous for law abiding citizens, why so-called red flag laws don't work and can be easily abused. How we can return to a society that has a safe and healthy relationship with guns and more. Larry, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 00:01:42 Thanks for having me on. I, I appreciate it.
Speaker 0 00:01:46 So, I'd like to start by asking our guests their origin stories. And yours is quite unusual, growing up on a working dairy for farm, becoming a Mormon missionary, opening a gun store, teaching firearms. It doesn't sound like the backstory of a bestselling science fiction, uh, fantasy writer. So, uh, how did your experiences propel you on your current pal?
Speaker 1 00:02:13 Um, yeah, I had, I have a different back, uh, different background, I guess, than most people who wind up in writers. But I grew up in El Nido, California, which is a very poor farming area. Uh, my family were Portuguese. Uh, my, uh, uh, Portuguese immigrants. My dad was born here. Uh, we, uh, were dairy farmers. That's what we did growing up. I did that for many years. I did that later on for other people too. I, I worked on, uh, the, i, I did a lot of stuff with cows, uh, that will develop a certain, uh, rough and tumble mindset, I guess. And also a, uh, unique perspective on what it means to have a work ethic. Um, I went to college in Utah. Uh, like I said, I was a missionary. I did that, uh, for two years. I loved that. That was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 Uh, great experience. I, uh, graduated from Utah State with a degree in accounting. I became an accountant. I went to work for very businesses. I wound up in the gun business, cause I've always been a gun guy. I've always been passionate about the Second Amendment and firearms. I, I wound up, um, as a machine gun dealer, <laugh>, I owned a machine gun sore. I, uh, I did that for many years. I was a concealed weapons instructor. I was a rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Uh, I, I did a little bit of activism at the state level. Um, was involved in some gun rights activism, that kind of thing. Uh, this entire time I was a novelist as well as I was trying to make it as a novelist. I've always been a, a want to be writer. Uh, during this time period, I wrote my first book, monster Hunter International, which, uh, I self-published after getting rejected by literally everything in Manhattan Publishing.
Speaker 1 00:03:44 Um, it blew up huge. It, uh, was a huge hit. And I picked up a publishing contract, and I've been a writer ever since. I, uh, in the meantime, I also, I was, uh, I was a military contract accountant. I did, uh, that kind of thing for many years before I was a full-time author. And, uh, I have now written, I believe, 26 or 27 books, uh, a whole bunch of colle or four collections now, short fiction, four anthologies I've edited and, uh, in defense of the Second Amendments, my very first, uh, non-fiction project that I've ever done. And, uh, it's, it's been a wild write <laugh>. I I am married. I, uh, for, for 25 years now, I've got four kids, uh, three of whom are adults. And so that's, that's odd <laugh>. They, they get old on you. And so that, that's pretty much me and what I do.
Speaker 1 00:04:34 I just, uh, I just write books now and, um, chime in with a lot of controversial opinions on various things. I'm in an industry that is, uh, overwhelmingly not liberty minded. Uh, the publishing industry is based out of Manhattan and, uh, is overwhelmingly, uh, kind of authoritarian in, in nature right now. And so people who go against that are, are considered oddities. And, uh, I've, uh, so I've kind of made a name for myself as being the guy who bucks those trends. And, uh, I have a great, great career and thoroughly love what I do.
Speaker 0 00:05:09 Uh, any literary influences along the way. A lot of writers are also huge readers. Um, so I don't know if they were science fiction writers that influenced you. And of course, the obligatory question. Did you read any Ayn Rand along the way?
Speaker 1 00:05:26 Yeah, actually. So, uh, I did read Ein Rand in college. Uh, was was the first time I read, uh, both Fountainhead and Atlas Shrug. And as a young man who has issues with authority, uh, they were very pivotal. They were very pivotal books for me. Uh, especially I say being a a gun rights guy, a lot of that, uh, definitely, uh, came over in my philosophy. And also growing up on a farm, you come away with a very, uh, distrusting nature as far as the government and the promises, which they make you <laugh>. And so there was that. So yes, there was definitely some influences there, especially in my, in my early twenties. Um, a big pivotal author is honestly for me, if I had to pin it down to a fuke, I, I did read a lot, uh, when I was young, would be Louis Lamore, uh, the, the famous Western author.
Speaker 1 00:06:13 I read, uh, a hundred of his books, literally a hundred of them, if not more. And, um, probably Robert E. Howard, uh, the creator of Conan, Solomon Cain, uh, brand Macor, uh, that was k. Those two authors, I would say were the biggest influences on me stylistically, uh, and probably philosophically in, in my youth. And then I ever, I've read everything else I can get my hands on. I, uh, I was a voracious reader most of my life. Once you become an author and unfortunately it kills a lot of your reading time. Uh, so I don't read as much now just because of the nature of the beast. I, I read a book now. My brain starts to edit it.
Speaker 0 00:06:51 <laugh> <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:06:52 Unfortunately. Uh, but yeah, I'm, I'm a huge reader and, uh, uh, thorough, thoroughly enjoy reading different things from various genres and eras. And I try not to limit myself to just one kind of thing, like to bounce around.
Speaker 0 00:07:07 So, uh, we talked a little bit about the story behind Monster Hunter International, which I'm also thoroughly enjoying. Um, are there some kind of autobiographical elements or
Speaker 1 00:07:19 <laugh>? Yeah, there are some. And so where that came from originally was, uh, I was on back in the early days of the internet forums. Um, I was a, I was a young guy involved in some different internet gun forums. And we were making jokes one day about lines we'd like to hear in a horror movie. And basically the, the idea was horror movies, which I enjoy, um, would be really, really short if they start our people <laugh>, if they start, you know, gun nuts and, and the, you know, liberty minded people who take care of themselves versus most horror movies are people who just kind of like scream and run to get eaten. And so my very first published novel was based on that idea. I was like, okay, I'm gonna take my people. And also, one of the things we do in it is, um, uh, it, monster Hunting is a for-profit, uh, business. It, it is, um, in fact we compare it often to the government. So, so we get a little Randy and Philosoph. You can see how this <laugh>, in fact, we, uh, my monster hunters are devout capitalists who get paid to handle monster problems
Speaker 0 00:08:23 And paid handsomely
Speaker 1 00:08:25 <laugh>. Yeah. That's their career. And, uh, so it's monster hunting for fun and profit, and that's their, their job. And they treat it as a job. They treat it as such and they often butt heads with the, um, the official, uh, uh, control three control freak, authoritarian style of monster control. Uh, cuz in the books, I set it up. So the monster, the existence of monsters must be kept secret. And so we have kind of the two competing schools of private versus public and, uh, how, how they're, how they're handled. And that's kind of a theme that's been in the series, uh, for, for Forever now, we're that, that series we're now up to with the spinoffs and the, um, anthologies, I think we're up to now 12 books with, uh, it'll be 13 this year. Uh, so that's, that's been a very popular one.
Speaker 0 00:09:11 Wow. How many books do you come out with? I mean, what's your pace? Is it, uh, a couple of books? About
Speaker 1 00:09:17 About two a year? Uh, I've done, I've done three a year at times. I've done one a year at a time. My average comes out to about two and a half a year is what I do. And I've done that now for, um, uh, about 13 years, which is kind of crazy. I think 15 years ago is when my very first self-published book first came out. So, and then I still had a few years after that where I still had a job, like a regular normal person job. And I did, uh, uh, defense contracting. And, uh, then after that I, I went full-time. And so every time, since I've been a full-time writer, it's been about two and a half, three books a year.
Speaker 0 00:09:50 Now, we talked a little bit about the New York publishing scene, and I would certainly assume, uh, that the literary scene is, um, more authoritarian, um, not, not, uh, open to, uh, liberty minded themes, but I might have thought that sort of sci-fi and, uh, fantasy that that would've had a different ethos perhaps. I'm just thinking of, you know, h lines fiction and, and other, um, writers from that, uh, from that sort of, uh, side of the ideological fence. So, um, was that a surprise to you? Or is, is sci-fi uh, more, um, kind of open to a diversity of views or
Speaker 1 00:10:38 It, well, what it comes down to is the authors are actually as diverse as the rest of America. Uh, at the same time you have a lot of collectivist authors and, and socialists and, um, uh, various things of nature. We also have a lot of, you know, pro freedom, liberty minded individuals writing. I mean, we have Republicans and Democrats and so forth. It's, it's broken down like the bell curve of America. The problem is the actual industry itself, the publishing industry is gonna be 99 point something Democrat, um, and is once again, a very Manhattan based industry. Um, my publisher is out of North Carolina <laugh>. And so, so a little bit different there. And that's one reason I get away with doing what I do. Um, so the authors are actually kind of all over the board. The problem is, for a long time, the authors kind of had to stay silent because the powers that be would kind of enforce a rigid group think, where if you were an individualist and you went against that, you kind of rock the boat.
Speaker 1 00:11:38 They didn't like that they would sabotage your career. Uh, we have hundreds of examples of authors getting blackballed, uh, basically, and their careers being damaged because they win against, uh, kind of that Manhattan Group think narrative and it would damage their crews. What really changed that a lot was the introduction of independent publishing, uh, where people were able to just start, go around the gatekeepers and bring their books directly to the market. Um, it's cause we live in a, a world where, you know, the, it's, it's actually a fairly diverse group of views amongst the creators, but the gatekeepers are pretty much uniform, lockstep, uh, like-minded, all go to the same parties, all went to the same colleges, all know each other, all got their jobs through basically nepotism and favoritism and so on and so forth. So it's become a very insular, clique-ish kind of industry. Uh, so yeah, there are a lot of free thinking, science fiction and fantasy authors out there who do kind of maintain that legacy of Henline, um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But for a long time they were, they had to stay quiet.
Speaker 0 00:12:44 And we're gonna turn to your book, uh, in defense of the Second Amendment. So everybody start typing in your questions and we're gonna get to a few of those. But I wanted to, uh, include one last thing that I saw. You had started a campaign called Sad Puppies. Uh, I think perhaps in an effort to fight back against these, these sort of industry gatekeepers, tell us what it was and, uh, what was your vision?
Speaker 1 00:13:10 Oh, so what happened was this, about seven years ago, um, at that point in time, my career had done well enough that I was, um, safe. There wasn't really any way that anybody could damage me or blackball me because I had developed a pretty large and loyal fan base. Whereas a lot of writers who were conservative or libertarian, uh, were kind of shunned into silence. And they, they had to stay quiet on purpose. And so there was this big prestigious award, uh, in, uh, science fiction and fantasy publishing called the Hugo Award. And being a former, yeah, being a former finance guy, I'm good at stats and I was looking at how, how this shook out and who won it and how it was won. And I was stunned to see how small it was. What a small, tiny insular group. And we looked at it basically for the last 250 something winners, uh, there had been like 16 who had been something other than left wing.
Speaker 1 00:14:01 Um, so it was overwhelmingly very much, uh, a monoculture. And I was like, yeah, that's not, that's not right. And so I decided to get my fans involved directly as much people who had kind of like drifted away from traditional science fiction and fandom awards. And, um, I decided to bring these people back and I did with a vengeance. And so the first year I did it were sad puppies. The name comes from was, you remember the Sarah McLaughlin video, uh, where she was trying to get those show the sad puppies and they would play the sad music and try to get people to donate money to an animal shelter. So I did a spoof for that, only involving writers, uh, involving, uh, non left wing novelists being si, you know, and, and how this caused puppy sadness cuz we never got recognized for our work.
Speaker 1 00:14:44 And so I started bringing in all these fans and we referred to 'em as wrong fans, having wrong fun. Uh, and we basically moved in and we got a whole bunch of people, uh, over the next couple years we got a whole bunch of people nominated for these prestigious awards that would normally have been despised and hated and shunned and blackballed. It caused so much controversy. They even hear seven years later, I'm still getting hounded about this. Uh, and it's funny cuz everything I predicted about the, the people that I was, you know, kind of fighting against and trying to expose has come true. Um, everything I've, I've said about them has been demonstrated. And in fact, now the big convention, um, this is particularly ironic, the big convention that administers this world con uh, this year is being held in communist China. Um, the Big world event is now, is now controlled by the Communist Chinese as being held in Chengdu China this year.
Speaker 1 00:15:38 Um, to just give you an idea, because once they then, then all the people like me, all the libertarians and conservatives, they pretty much kicked us out after this and shunned us. And so they just like threw a big wall around it. And once they did that, it just became even more insular and clique-ish and political. And, uh, now it's not based on merit or entertainment or storytelling at all. The whole thing is just a, a political, political virtue signaling and posturing contest where whoever has the most victim points is given on award, and then they give them to their friends. It's, it's, it's an absolutely fascinating thing to watch.
Speaker 0 00:16:20 Well, at some point we may need to just come up with a whole different award and
Speaker 1 00:16:25 There's, there's been a couple sensitive that have risen up because specifically because of what we did, uh, to expose that. And, uh, some of them are straight up popularity contests, just entirely decided by the fans. And, uh, it's been, it's been really, it's been really great to actually have some competition.
Speaker 0 00:16:43 Uh, absolutely. All right. Well, let's, uh, turn to your book in defense of the Second Amendment. Obviously you are a gun guy and you had gun stores and you did gun training. Um, but, uh, also wondering, is this just a book that you had wanted to write for a long time? There are some other books, um, about the subject. So what did you hope to bring to, uh, the subject that was different and, um, was there a timing issue for you?
Speaker 1 00:17:15 Yeah, so this one is actually, um, uh, being a fiction author primarily. But I did non-fiction on the side, mostly through blog posts. Um, one of my editors, uh, one of my fiction editors, a new job at Regner, this non-fiction publishing house. And in the wake of the Bruin Supreme Court decision, uh, that was looming at the time, uh, this publishing house decided that they wanted to have a guidebook for Second Amendment history and activism, uh, and getting people involved. And they, and they said, who do we know who is a first and foremost a good writer, uh, at, at first and then second a gun person who knows all this stuff. Uh, and my fiction editor said, Hey, I, my former fiction editor said, Hey, I got a guy <laugh>, I know a guy. Uh, and they were a little leery at first because like I said, I'm a science fiction and fantasy author, uh, not who you would think of to write a book that's got, you know, 15 pages of small print footnotes about law <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:18:14 Um, but I, uh, I went over and I did a pitch for them and I actually wrote this book in a very short amount of time, um, because this is a subject that I've been passionate about for 30 years. Uh, it's interesting when you've been learning about a subject for 30 years, uh, you can basically write most of it in 30 days <laugh>. I, because I've been doing research for a very long time. Um, and so those, so this was a passion project. This wasn't something I'd planned on doing before last year. It was just an opportunity fell in my lap. Um, I would've did it for free, honestly, don't, you know, I wouldn't spread that around, but mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's just something I feel so strongly in that I, I, I was just kinda wanted to help and I wanted to like, get something out there that could move the needle on the debate and arm the people who were already on my side with good facts.
Speaker 1 00:19:00 Um, and also to kind of hopefully sway some of the people who were sitting on the fence. I, I, I didn't just go a lot of, lot of, lot of pro-gun books tend to go very factual and very logical and very, um, non-emotional statistical, which I can do. But I'm a storyteller. I'm a novelist. And so the, the tact I took is I, I did it kinda like I was telling a story and I tried to hit those emotional beats because the thing is, uh, the left is extremely good at preying upon people's emotions on certain topics, except on the case of self-defense. Self-defense is a human right. And that's a thing that people are emotional about in both directions. And for too long we've kinda let the authoritarian side, uh, claim the moral high ground, which they do not hold. That's a lie. And so I kind of tried to break through that. And so the book is very colloquial, uh, just kind of, uh, personal and uh, I think it's worked really well. And from the, uh, from the reception, it does seem to be helping people out. So I'm, I am, I'm very happy about that.
Speaker 0 00:20:08 Let's, uh, talk about that narrative and perhaps we can start with the history of the gun control movement. Who were the earliest proponents and what were their aims and arguments?
Speaker 1 00:20:20 Yeah, this is actually really interesting. And this is something that's been refocused on recently because of the recent Supreme Court decision demanding historical precedent as justification for gun control. And when you look at the historical press, uh, for gun control, it is all about, uh, basically racism and classism. Um, it was all about keeping guns in the hands of the select and approved of society and disarming those who are seen as troublesome. Uh, and so the now when you have states like California and Illinois scrambling to justify their gun laws, then they're trying to find a, find historical analogs early part of the, of America's history. And what they're coming up with is laws that disarm the Indians arms that disarm Catholic immigrants, uh, laws that say that, um, freed slaves can't have weapons because they might be able to fight back when we're tormenting them.
Speaker 1 00:21:23 Uh, it was things of that nature. And so the history of gun control is one of evil. It's, it's one of malicious control and weaponizing the power of the government to disarm people so that they could be victimized. Uh, and it hasn't changed. It really hasn't. They, they, they put different terms upon it. They, they, they put a, you know, it wears a pretty hat now. Uh, they try to claim they have the moral high ground cuz they care so hard. But it always comes down to the same thing. Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's it's control. It's all about control. The guns are ancillary to it. If it wasn't guns, it would be speech, it would be religion, it would be business, it would be about personal, uh, freedom. It would be about private property. Um, they're all interrelated.
Speaker 0 00:22:15 So in your book you criticize the media for sensationalizing gun violence and ignoring defensive gun use. Could you elaborate on that?
Speaker 1 00:22:23 Yeah, this is actually really fascinating and I believe the media is directly complicit in this because they share the vision of, uh, disarming people for the, you know, greater good. And so they lie continually and they manipulate, well, they don't lie outright, they just manipulate, uh, they're very selective in what they do report. And I include a lot of documentation from various people including, um, uh, professor of economics, John Lott, who's done some stupendous research into this, where he goes in, he looks at news coverage and what he discovered was like a 2000, 2001, I believe is what the ratio was. If I can't, I, I'd have to check the actual stats, but as an astronomical figure, where of how negative uses of guns in society are reported on versus positive. Um, so if you have a defensive shooting where, uh, an innocent person uses a firearm to defend themselves against a criminal, the odds of that getting any national news coverage approaches zero.
Speaker 1 00:23:26 Um, it might get some local news coverage for a day or two and then vanish. Now if you reverse that and a criminal uses a firearm to victimize innocent people that will get non-stop coverage. And I even go into the book, uh, a lot of examples of the coverage is how is specifically manipulated to sell a narrative. If the identity of the bad guy in any case is helpful to the narrative they're trying to sell at the time, it'll get far more coverage. If the identity of the bad guy is bad for the narrative or goes against the narrative, then advantages from the coverage really fast. Um, every now and then there's a, a situation where there is something positive, there's a positive defensive use and it will break through into the media. Usually that's because it goes viral through social media before they can step on it. Um, and, and I've got examples of that too. And when that happens, they scramble to try to find some way to spin it as being a negative. So when you look at the actual numbers and you look at the actual statistics as far as we configure, and I, I I I include I think 24 different studies on this, the usage of guns defensively for people to defend their lives and property, uh, are dramatically orders of magnitude higher than guns used to do the opposite to take lives. And, uh, yeah, it's,
Speaker 1 00:24:55 It's absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 0 00:24:57 I was, I thought I knew something about the subject, um, but I was really surprised by the evidence you present. I'm gonna turn to some audience questions, but first I just wanted to take a step back because you said that you also wrote the book, uh, for people who were on the fence or who didn't know much about the subject. So maybe we could just take a break and talk about what are some of the most common misconceptions, uh, about the second amendment that people have today?
Speaker 1 00:25:25 Yeah, that's, that's actually a really interesting one. And that's actually what I, I closed the book on, is trying to reach out to new people. And it's, the misconceptions are things like having a gun in the home is more likely to harm the homeowner than an intruder. That's just a lie. That's a, a fake study, but people believe it. Um, or you're just gonna hurt yourself. And one that they aim at women, which is really kind of, uh, interesting cuz the, they attack guns as being a misogynistic thing, yet guns are the ultimate equalizer. And if you look at the fastest growing demographic of gun ownership, right now it's, it is female gun owners. But what we saw for the longest time, it is like, well if you, if you're a woman and you have a gun to defend yourself, the bad guy's just gonna take it away from you and use it against you, which is asinine.
Speaker 1 00:26:11 It's, uh, blatantly untrue. Um, and so what we saw, especially in the year 2020 when we had the breakdown of law and order and we reversed, uh, three decades of a lowering crime rate, uh, and we jumped back to 1993 level murders all within one year because, you know, just the breakdown of society there, gun sales went through the roof, um, the sales exploded. Um, if you look at the number of nick's checks across America, dramatic increase everywhere. Uh, and in fact to the point where the supply chain was choked off and people were standing in line outside of gun stores to buy guns, whatever that gun store had at whatever they were willing to sell it for, well, here's the thing, that wasn't my people doing that. That wasn't gun owners doing that. We don't pay over retail <laugh>. We pay, we never pay your M S R P, we've got ours.
Speaker 1 00:27:08 So what was happening was hundreds of thousands of new people were getting guns because for the first time in their lives, all these myths that they had been told that they had bought unquestioned, the narrative that had swallowed was proven to be false. When they were told that, oh, just call 9 1 1 and the cops will come protect you, that's their job. Well, of a sudden we had dozens of cities across America on fire and people would call 9 1 1 and be like, well, we can't come. Good luck. You're on your own. And those people were scrambling to buy guns cuz the first time in their lives they were confronted with the idea that the state cannot protect you. And they came to the realization that the, that's the power that we've delegated to the states. And the idea that the state would do a job fairly only, they weren't.
Speaker 1 00:27:59 And so we have millions and millions of new gun owners across America. So one of the groups of people I was really trying to reach out to at this book is, is those people to try to get them up to speed and try to get them to understand, uh, where we come from and the arguments that we make and why we make 'em and what they can do to, to, to improve themselves and to improve their situations and to learn and to help their friends. So I have high hopes for the future cuz a lot of the myths of gun control have been crushed in recent years. Um, and that narrative that they've been selling has become an increasingly difficult lie to pedal.
Speaker 0 00:28:35 Well, uh, we love, uh, an op an optimistic view of the future one grounded in reality. And, uh, it sounds like that's what you're seeing. So I'm gonna turn to some of these questions first from Facebook. George Axel Opolis asks, while constitutional carry is becoming more widespread, do you think the automatic automatic weapons ban is going to be harder to put down?
Speaker 1 00:29:02 Okay, that's an interesting one. Um, the N F A is something I do talk about in the book quite a bit, and it's been with us since 1934 and it's a terrible, terrible law. It doesn't make a lick of sense constitutionally. And there has been several blows against it in recent years, uh, based upon two specific Supreme Court decisions. And where we're standing right now is there are two parts of the N F A, which are currently under assault in court. Um, so it's going to be really, really interesting to see what the next few years hold. I wouldn't get excited about legal machine guns anytime soon. Um, I mean, it took us four years of non-stop court battles to get the whole bump stock ban, uh, to get some relief on that. Currently right now we're going through a battle over the pistol braces, which is part of the N F A, which is part of the same exact law that affects the machine guns.
Speaker 1 00:29:57 Part of the issue is that on the Supreme Court has recently ruled that if a weapon is useful and common and common use or useful for militia purposes, it is protected under the Second Amendment. It's a very difficult argument for the government to make that a full auto weapon is not useful for militia purposes when the single most common weapon issued to the military fits that criteria, uh, is kind of where we're at right now. That said, we are years off of this getting an actual court challenge as far as Congress repealing that barring some sort of unforeseen electoral miracle, I wouldn't, you know, get your hopes up on that. I mean, maybe if a meteor hits California <laugh>, I I just don't, that's not gonna be anytime soon. That's where I live. Oh, sorry, sorry. I mean, only what, where, where were your congressmen and senators slip?
Speaker 1 00:30:59 Um, I I, I don't know what's gonna happen on that. That said, I do expect or hope over the next decade to see a change on a couple parts of the N F A, specifically the short billed rifles and shotguns, uh, because that's what's under, uh, the question right now. If the brace stock court cases, uh, I'm sorry, bra, uh, pistol brace court cases. And the other one I actually do expect to see, um, some relief on hopefully in the next decade is, um, uh, suppressors, uh, silencers because that is also underneath there. And that's also an interesting thing. So I'm just waiting to see some court cases prig up, uh, pick up about that. And there are some states pushing back on that as well. Uh, and this is all actually related to the first part. The, uh, he mentioned was the, uh, rise of constitutional carry.
Speaker 1 00:31:49 This is all interconnected. Um, we are now up to 26 states allow some form of constitutional carry. Uh, and that's gonna be 27, I believe here pretty soon. Cause I think it was Nebraska State legislator just voted for it, uh, today. So that's fantastic. That's over half the states. Now, when I got started in this, there was one constitutional carry state, I believe there were seven, uh, may issue states or or seven shall issue states. And, and a handful of may issue states in the vast and half the states were no carry. And so over 30 years we've seen this just dramatic pendulum swing as more and more states have fought back against the federal government, and more and more state legislators have found their spines and, uh, stood up for their people. So that's a, that's a hard one. I I don't have my crystal ball. I'm, I I I am an optimist and I I see good things. I would say if you really want to get rid of the N F A support organizations, uh, support your local pro gun organizations, support your national lo pro gun organizations that are doing these lawsuits, uh, things like s a f uh, F P C, uh, g o a, uh, support those organizations that are out there filing those lawsuits on your behalf, that's your best bet.
Speaker 0 00:33:08 All right. We've got a question, uh, from Instagram Kirkland 1983 asks, Larry, what do you think of 3D printed stocks and other gun parts, uh, present to the conversation on gun policy?
Speaker 1 00:33:22 This is actually really interesting. I have a section in the book specifically about this. Um, because I believe overall, historically speaking, gun control as a means of actually disarming the populace is dead. They just don't understand it yet. Um, and it's a combination of not just 3D printing technology, uh, but also the increase in cheap, affordable, available home machining. Um, the, what honestly, gun control was, uh, as far as effectively disarming a population was effectively dead when, uh, Harbor Freight started bringing cheap drill presses in <laugh> to America. It's the kind of thing that no matter what laws they put in place now at this point, to actually have gun control, no matter how draconian it is, somebody who really wants one can make one. And it used to be we can make some pretty rough stuff like that, uh, from just parts from Home Depot and things like guns, the loo, things like that.
Speaker 1 00:34:22 But we've actually gotten rather technologically refined now. So if somebody wishes to, you know, break gun control laws and manufacture firearms, that is imminently doable. We are now to the point where we can rifle barrels at home. Um, uh, it's, it's, it's interesting, uh, I, I actually in the book site instances from around the world with countries that have gun control laws that are crazy by American standards that Americans would literally revolt, uh, they would not stand for this level of gun control in, in most of America, yet those countries, we are seeing 3D printed guns and homemade guns being used. Uh, in fact, I talk about the, the, the war in Burma. We actually have a lot of footage of actual combat in Burma where they are using, uh, 3D printed nine millimeter submachine guns and Wow. Yeah, it's, it's, and so it does actually change it a lot.
Speaker 0 00:35:23 I it, I do think there's other areas as well where, you know, the advance of technology is opening up new spheres of freedom and yet, you know, we can't just rely on that because the state is also continuing to advance as well. Um, but in terms of that international perspective, our friend, my modern gat on Instagram asks, it seems like the UK still has a high degree of crime even without guns. Larry, are there other examples where guns being made illegal, made crime increase?
Speaker 1 00:35:59 Yeah, it's actually really interesting. I have a whole chapter in this because I find it so fascinating. The statistics. Um, part of the problem is when you compare crime stats from country to country, it's apples and oranges. Cuz most countries do not document their crime in the same way. Um, people, the narrative controlling media types understand this and they will cherry pick their support, their narrative. We delve into, um, they like to say that America is like the 79th most dangerous country in the world, right? Um, that's, that's that require, and I I I dug into these stats that requires you to believe things like China has no murders. Uh, Sierra Leon is safer than America. <laugh> cuz everybody lies, all these, every country lies. Uh, governments lie. Now what we have seen in places like specifically England, Australia, uh, actually couple last, last year in New Zealand, uh, where you have countries that will push through really draconian gun control in the name of public safety and then the public doesn't get any safer.
Speaker 1 00:37:08 Some of these countries will be like, well, we haven't had any mass shootings, uh, since we passed gun control. The problem is most of those examples are using are countries that didn't have mass shootings before. We're talking about, uh, a type of crime that is statistically extremely rare. Uh, even in America, they portray it as a common thing, but it's actually a statistical oddity. If there were no more mass shootings tomorrow that would still leave like 99.7% of our murders, um, they're, they're, they're not that big of a thing at the grand pitcher. So you have countries like England, they had um, they had one mass shooting, they put through draconian gun control and they said, we haven't had any mass shooting since. Well you only had one before. Uh, Australia, same thing. Now what we have seen in places like England and Australia, however, is a corresponding rise afterwards, uh, of violent crime.
Speaker 1 00:38:00 Some cases murder oftentimes involving alternate weapons because it's not really the question of the gun, it's a question of societal violence and how it manifests with whatever tools they have available. I mean, so you're way more likely to get stabbed. I mean, yeah, America will get shot. We have guns, we have lots of guns everywhere. England, they'll stab you, Australia, they'll beat you. Australia was actually fascinated to see just how high their, um, their rate of sexual assault was, uh, Australia's rate of sexual assault and um, rape was astronomically high by American standards. And so it's really interesting how they, they cherry pick the stats they want to use and they compare these things. Really, if you look at most of the world too, even the places that do have the draconian gun control, the stuff they're trying to prevent, when a criminal puts his mind to it, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 00:38:47 And I have plenty of examples from the book from around the world, Europe, Asia, Africa, where civilian gun ownership is extremely limited or almost impossible, yet they still had those types of mass killing crimes, including some of the very worst in the world. Uh, the highest. And it's funny cuz they always, in America, they're always act like this is a uniquely American phenomenon. No, it's not. And I have hundreds of examples to prove that it's not. And in fact, statistically it's not even that odd for us. And even in places if you expand it outward to beyond just the tool used and you move it into things like bombs, poison or, uh, driving a truck down the street, uh, the rest of the world catches up with us. So, all
Speaker 0 00:39:33 Right, well what is, uh, uniquely American of course is the second amendment and our tradition of gun ownership. Um, so when we're talking about some of these more draconian gun bans, um, that have been implemented in other countries, perhaps the most extreme gun proposal here is a total ban on all private ownership of guns. Um, this was a really interesting section in the book, so I'd like you to speak to whether you think the federal government would either even try to pursue that. Uh, and what are some of the scenarios that you outlined in the book in terms of what you'd expect the response would be?
Speaker 1 00:40:16 Yeah, no, this is one. Um, when I originally wrote that, that section was in response to Congressman Eric Swalwell, who is the dumbest man in Congress, <laugh> and Eric Swalwell one day was talking about how, you know, if we wanna take your guns, we're just gonna take your guns because the government has nukes and what are you gonna do about that? And that caused me to kind of go on a research spiral of the history of, uh, armed rebellion and to provide dozens of examples of how he has no idea what he's talking about. And, and that is a nightmare scenario that I would, I would pray that the government would never engage in. And I get into the logistics of it, I get into the numbers behind it and the stats and the challenges that they would face basically to have nationwide gun confiscation in America to like just round 'em.
Speaker 1 00:41:11 Could you always hear dumb politicians saying, round them all up, we're gonna go door to door and take your guns. Okay, I get into the book and the number of gun owners and the number of guns we have in, in the country. And so that's, first off, it's an astronomical undertaking bill. Let's say that, and the numbers I use in the book are 99.9% of gun owners say, yeah, sure, okay, I don't care. Take our guns. The number that remains, if only the most listless malcontents among us, you know, me and my friends <laugh>, uh, are the ones who resist. You are looking at a number that is orders of magnitude larger than the number of insurgents that we fought at any given time in Iraq or Afghanistan over an area that's far larger. And I hate to break it to 'em, but it's not gonna be that small of Aman because once the government starts doing the atrocities next to sary to round up Americans and strip them of their freedom and property and lives, um, other people aren't going to like that.
Speaker 1 00:42:13 And they always act like they're going to use these advanced weapon systems against the American people with impunity. Well, the thing is, they don't understand the Venn diagrams of the people who make up gun owners and the people who drive those systems, build those systems, maintain those systems. Uh, that's as I think in the book, I describe it as a stack of pancakes cuz we're one and the same. It's the same thing too. They say cops will go door to door and take the guns. Well there's only, uh, I believe you count federal agents and everything, there's like 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the United States of America. That is actually not a very large number, especially when once again, you look at that Venn diagram cuz half of those guys are gonna be having to confiscate guns from themselves. Will some police and military go along with that kind of, uh, unconstitutional order?
Speaker 1 00:43:03 Oh yes, absolutely. Guaranteed. Look at the history of the world. There's always some parts of every organization, but it's gonna depend on regional philo, uh, philosophy and where those people come from. There are gonna be states in America where your number of law enforcement officers who would go along with that is gonna be astronomically high and they're probably gonna be the same blue cities that we expect that kind of thing anyway. But you come out to a lot of rural red state America, your local sheriff's department is not going to go out and round up guns, um, from us angry rednecks for 15 bucks an hour. Um, one of the comments I had in there was like, if you think the Taliban was bad, wait till you fight Florida, man <laugh> and this, it's, it's crazy. And so honestly, yes. So is it possible that the government would ever push that hard, that fast and go for something of that?
Speaker 1 00:43:55 Yes, it is because governments do stupid things. <laugh>. Uh, do I think it's likely I don't, I don't know. I would hope not. Um, but once again, I don't have a crystal ball. I can't predict how dumb people can be. That said, if they do it, it is a nightmare. It is a national nightmare. It'd be crisis beyond all comprehension. Uh, I get into this in the book and this is probably the, the, um, grim part of the book. When I talk about the true meaning of the Second Amendment, why we have it and it being a kill switch, um, it is the big red button, um, that we don't wanna push. And so you would hope and pray that politicians wouldn't make us push the button.
Speaker 0 00:44:41 It it, it was eye-opening, uh, to say the least. And also I thought a, a really good primer for people who get the argument while we have the nukes and we have all of the advanced weaponry and are you gonna be, you know, fighting us off with a, with a rifle? So, um, now with about 15 minutes left, I definitely wanna make sure we don't, uh, neglect to cover school shootings. Um, been in the news a lot recently. So any commentary on some of the recent shootings and how they may illustrate some of the points that you've made in the book, perhaps about like, uh, whether or not a perpetrator is of the narrative or not of the narrative. Um, and then of course, best and worst proposals for preventing or dealing with such shootings.
Speaker 1 00:45:30 Absolutely. This is one of the main things I talk about in the book just because once again, this is statistically rare, but it's one of the bigger cultural issues. It's one of the bigger more, uh, it it's, it's the, it's an event that when it happens, this sucks all the oxygen outta the room. And even though 99% of the time we're talking about regular crime is what affects people, these events are such big, massive outliers. That's what people wanna talk about. And that's also what the other side uses to push for gun control because they're so big and emotional. Uh, that said, what got me started in, uh, gun rights activism, uh, in testifying before, uh, uh, state legislator in my home state was I was a concealed weapons instructor. And one of the things that I did was, uh, in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shooting, I started, uh, a policy to teach anyone who was a college student, uh, in my state, I would teach you for free.
Speaker 1 00:46:25 And if you were an employee of a school, I would teach you for free. The idea being that I wanted to get more people armed in these schools because in my state, Utah, we actually had concealed carry in schools. Um, we don't have armed teachers per se, but a teacher can be armed. And what I mean by that is it's not a mandatory program, it's completely voluntary, but the way our law is set up here is that if a if an employee of a school wants to carry a firearm with a concealed weapons permit, they are allowed to do so at work. And that is the way the law works here. And that's how Utah has been for a very long time. Uh, we fought a lot of battles in the state legislature for this. That's what something I was involved in. And I was one of the guys that testified before about universities and college students to get the same thing.
Speaker 1 00:47:15 But over time I started teaching all these people for free. And so I got to teach hundreds and hundreds of school employees and I wasn't the only instructor in the state doing this. And so we had a lot of armed teachers in Utah. One of the things we discovered is every school in America has somebody willing to carry a gun. And what I get into in the book a lot, and it's not just schools, but it's any place where a mass shooting could happen, what stops mass shootings or any of these mass killings is a violent response. That violent response can either be an immediate violent response by somebody who is already there or very close, or it can be 5, 10, 15 minutes later. And what it always boils down to is in these events, the longer the bad actor has to act, the higher the number of casualties period.
Speaker 1 00:48:11 Uh, I go into the book in great depth how if there is somebody nearby when the event starts, odds are there is only two or three people hurt if they have to wait for law enforcement to arrive that number, the average number climbs up to about 12. And that's simple. It's a simple matter of math and logistics. So if you really want to stop, um, school shootings, you need to make schools not gun free zones. I go into that in the book a lot. Gun free zones are where these events happen overwhelmingly, um, it's really hard to pin down the actual statistics, but conservatively speaking it's in the 90 high, 90 percentile range. It's a gun free zone. And in fact, even like we have was talking about the narrative, there was a shooting in Kentucky, uh, just what last week at the bank and they were like, well, Kentucky's a uh, constitutional carry state.
Speaker 1 00:49:10 Look what good it did you, and then you delve into it. The bank was a gun-free zone. The employees at the bank were not allowed to carry guns. Um, we know for a fact that the, uh, the sh uh, the shooter that, uh, that shot those kids in Tennessee right before that, cause once again, these things tend to happen in clumps too. I talk about that as well cuz it's media contagion. The shooter in Tennessee very specifically, and the, the the police told us that school that she attacked was not the initial target. The initial target was a different place. Only it had too much security. So the new target was a place that had no security, it had no armed people. It, it's a very simple calculus and people just need to wake up that evil exists and there are bad people in the world who want to hurt good people. Uh, their motives, their background, I mean that's, honestly, it doesn't matter. It's interchangeable. They're always gonna go to the place where they can do the most harm without getting hurt themselves. The longer they have to work the worst it's gonna be. So my solution to school shootings, honestly, is simply, uh, get the government out of the way. Let people carry guns at work if they work at schools. It's pretty straightforward.
Speaker 0 00:50:29 All right. Uh, heading back to our audience questions. Um, Colin near from Twitter asks, how do conservatives keep letting the left get away with the statement that quote, guns are the leading killer of children, um, when the metric is for page people ages three to 19. Is that correct?
Speaker 1 00:50:49 Yeah, actually one of the, that's one of the, the little bits of so sophistry they use to push the narrative. Uh, first off the, they will manipulate the stats to pull out the very, very young, because if you leave in the stats of, of people who die, uh, during complications after birth, that's actually a really high number. Uh, so they pull those out and so they start you a little bit older and then they run it up to like, you know, I I was either, it depends on the survey, either 19 year olds or all the way to 21 year olds, and it's like the leading cause is getting shot, what they leave out. And they always make it sound like a school, like little school children. Like you think it's like six or eight year olds getting shot? No, it's 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds getting shot.
Speaker 1 00:51:32 And whether they're getting shot, they're getting shot in places like Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, and usually it's something gang related. It's gang and drug related. And that makes up the vast majority of America's violent crime. Now, I'm not gonna get into, into like the sociopolitical reasons for crime, and I avoid that specifically in the book because it's a distraction of what I'm actually talking about. But the important thing to remember is that it's all about this narrative twisting when they try to paint this picture, this emotional picture that guns are what kill children. No, cuz it, it, they're trying to make us sound like these school shootings happen 300 times a year. And we saw they actually happened five times a year, maybe seven times a year, depending on some year. I think the highest I could find in any given was year was like 11 and the lowest was like two or three.
Speaker 1 00:52:23 But those were statistical nominees. But they're trying to paint that as the norm. They don't wanna say that most of America's gun crime is drug and gang related because that doesn't sell the narrative that they're trying to sell because that's the kind of crime that regular people want to get concealed weapons permit and own guns to defend themselves by or defend themselves from. Um, so, uh, that is definitely, and why do, now that first part of your question is why do, uh, why do we let them get away with that? Uh, I don't know. It's one of the reasons I'm, I do stuff. I write this book and try to get this stuff out there and put the actual stats out there in front of people in hopes that, uh, guys like you will take that and, and show that to your friends and tell people and spread the word. Uh, the big thing is we gotta fight back. We gotta push back. When, when people lie to your face, you need to respond and say that that is not the truth. And the most part thing is not really responding to the liars, it's responding to the audience that's listening to the Liars. Um, so it's up to all of us to get the word out.
Speaker 0 00:53:26 That's a very, that was a very astute point that you made in the book, that, you know, a lot of times you're arguing with somebody who will never change their mind. They're committed to their narrative, but the way you engage in the debate, not just with the facts that you're able to marshal, but also the way you conduct yourself in the debate, um, is for those who are listening and those who are watching or those who are, you know, online, uh, that's where you might have the chance to, to change people's minds. All right, I'm gonna take this one last one because it ha it returns us to what we were talking about at the beginning, which is your, um, your amazing fiction. Scott on YouTube asks, can you talk about your recent letter to Epic fantasy readers? That's gotten a lot of praise
Speaker 1 00:54:11 <laugh>. Um, we have a, we have a problem right now in the epic fantasy business. Uh, I, I do have one epic fantasy series where because of certain big name famous offers, specifically George r r Martin, uh, you know, game of Thrones, very famous and another fellow named Patrick Rothfus. Um, they both had big giant hit series. They started and they didn't finish them. And we've been waiting like 12 years, 15 years now for their last book to come out. Because of that, a big part of the market, uh, is no longer willing to buy books from a series that aren't finished. And this is a genre that is based on having series, not standalone, that's just kind of like market expectations. And so we have big punk part of the market because they got burned by Martin and Rothfus are saying, well, we're not gonna buy books until the series is done.
Speaker 1 00:54:59 Uh, well, I'm trying to point out to people, it's like you need to get over that because if you love epic fantasy and you want to continue having epic fantasy, you need to take a gamble on purchasing products, um, from these new writers, these young and upcoming writers, because otherwise they can't afford to keep working <laugh> if they don't have any income, uh, they're not gonna write you that five or seven book stories series that you're gonna cherish forever and it's gonna be your favorite thing that's never gonna exist because they can't do that. They can't take 10 years, um, with no return on investment. So mostly was a plea. Um, it was a plea to the market to please get over this. If you really love this thing and you wanna see this thing continue, you guys need to, you need to actually invest in it because otherwise, uh, guys like me are, we're getting older, uh, we're getting older and we're gonna age out. And there's not going to be a generation of writers behind us to replace us because you starved them, uh, in the years where they would've been learning and growing and getting better at this. Um, and so it's not about me. I'm doing fine <laugh>. I, I'm, I'm worried about the writers after me.
Speaker 0 00:56:06 All right, well, we'll put a link to that, uh, that, that article in the chat to close up. Any other non-fiction books you'd like to tackle or new directions that you'd like to explore in, in fiction, what you might be working on right now?
Speaker 1 00:56:23 Um, currently right now I'm back to concentrating on my fiction, cuz that is my bread and butter. Uh, that's primarily what I'm known for. Uh, I, I do try to hit a lot of the sa even though I, I, I'm a fiction writer and I'm an entertainment first, first and foremost. I do like to hit on those themes that are important to me and I believe are philosophically important to all of us. Uh, you know, I, I like to write about hope and heroism and good versus evil and, and people struggling and sacrificing and, and making the world a better place. Uh, and I really do love that and I think it, I think that's actually an important thing. Um, so right now I'm concentrating back in trying to catch up my fiction for the time that I took off to, to write the non-fiction. Are there other nonfiction projects I'd like to hit in the future? Uh, possibly. But right now I don't have anything official, uh, that in mind. So right now I just need to get caught back up on the fiction.
Speaker 0 00:57:13 Well, that, um, is yet another reason why we're extremely grateful that you took this hour out of your day to chat with us, to talk to us about the book. Everyone go out and buy it. The audible version is also excellent. And Larry, what's the best way for us to keep track of you? Newsletter, website, social, social.
Speaker 1 00:57:35 My blog is monster hunter nation.com and I actually have a newsletter there. You can sign up and put your email in there and it'll, um, I, I don't spam the newsletter, so it's just mostly updates I when I have books coming out and that kind of thing. Um, I'm also on Twitter, um, just look me up by my name or I'm also on Facebook under my own name, Larry Korea. So, um, I would, I would, I would say don't follow me on social media if you're easily offended by casual profanity and politics. <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:58:02 All right, well, thank you Larry. Uh, this has been really terrific everyone. Again, the book is in Defense of the Second Amendment and of course his monster series. So go out and check that out. Um, thanks all of you for joining us today. If you enjoyed this video or any of our other materials, please consider making a tax deductible donation to
[email protected]. And please be sure to tune in next week when public Speaking coach and Objectivist Leopold Ajami will be our guest on the Atlas Society asks, see you then.
