The Atlas Society Asks Jack Carr

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hello everyone. And welcome to the 112th episode of the Atlas society asks. My name is Jennifer Anju, Grossman. My friends call me dag. I'm the CEO of the Atlas society. We are the leading nonprofit, introducing young people to the ideas of Iran in fun, creative ways like graphic novels and animated videos. Today, we are joined by Jack car before I even, uh, begin to introduce this man who really needs no introduction. I want to remind all of you, if you are watching us on zoom, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, or YouTube, you can use the comment section to type in new questions and we will get to as many of them as we can. So my guest Jack Carr is of course, the number one New York times bestselling author of the terminal list series. Uh, the hero of the series J uh, James Reese is a former Navy seal battling corrupt forces within the military industrial complex. Speaker 0 00:01:08 The title book of the series was optioned. I believe pre publication, uh, by actor Ja, Chris Pratt, who stars in the recent release on Amazon prime, where the series is now, number one on their chart. Uh, the fifth book in the series in the blood is a high octane thriller of targeted assassinations and revenge killings. Or as the author describes it, a novel of violent resolutions, uh, Jack car spent two decades in Naval special warfare serving as an enlisted SNE, uh, seal sniper, leading assault, sniper teams in Iraq and Afghanistan, commanding counterinsurgency to encounter insurgency Platos in the Philippines. And, um, as a special operations task unit against Iranian infiltration of Southern Iraq, that experience is part of what makes, uh, his fiction so believable and so immersive. Uh, and it also inspired his danger close podcast where he interviews former soldiers, tactical experts, and fellow authors about books, real world conflicts and more Jack Carr. Thanks again for joining us. Speaker 1 00:02:26 Oh, thank you so much. Evan been, so looking forward to this, uh, any, any excuse to talk about iron Rand or think about her or influence on me or the, the world, uh, is always, is always fun. Speaker 0 00:02:37 So yeah, you know, um, people sometimes ask for the motivation of, of what I for do at the ATLA society. And, um, it's in part it's, I feel like it's, it's the justice of repaying a debt, you know, that reading her gave so much to me personally helped me get through tough times, uh, and really kind of gave me a certain immunity, um, from so many of the, the viruses that are going around, you know, the, the envy, the resentment, the, the relativity. And so, uh, I, I wanna try to continue on that service by, um, helping other people gain access to her ideas. So first, uh, congratulations on your phenomenal success. I became hooked, uh, on your novels long before I learned that we shared an admiration for the works of IRI, but now it all begins to make sense. Um, and on her birthday last year, you wrote that quote, her work continues to influence how I live and write today. Speaker 0 00:03:43 And, um, thinking about you thinking about her. I also, I think the two of you share some similarities. She decided that, uh, she wanted to become a writer at nine years old. You decided you wanted, uh, to become a seal at seven. Both of your fictional works have been wildly popular with audiences, uh, while sometimes growing some, um, pretty, uh, withering from, from the critics. So, um, I'd like to look at these two similarities in turn, uh, first how you came to choose, um, your path at such a young age and, uh, and then turn to this dichotomy, uh, between how popular audiences and critics, uh, have responded to your work and, and what you might think could be behind that. Speaker 1 00:04:37 Oh, absolutely. And like you said, I can't really imagine a life without having, uh, read Iran's work, uh, thought about it, uh, and internalized it. Um, it would be, uh, a much darker place had I, uh, had I not discovered her early on, um, and not just for the way that I try to live my life or think things through or apply logic to, to certain scenarios or issues or whatever, um, whatever it might be, but from a leadership perspective as well in the seal teams and, uh, being able to, uh, lead in a way that, um, well, every day you're trying to be a better leader, a better operator, but part of that is thinking logically for your guys, um, because you're, you're focused on a very specific skill set in the seal teams and you make up this team together and there's some crossover there you're adapting as you go down range, the enemy is doing that. Speaker 1 00:05:26 It's very fast paced. Um, but, uh, sometimes you have to TA step back, take that breath, look around, make a call, um, but also be able to apply logic, whether it's to a, a targeting type of a, of a scenario, a mission planning type of a scenario, or you're out there actually on the ground in bullets are flying. But, uh, I really do think that iron Rand and her work helped form a foundation for me, um, for, for most of life. But, uh, but I was lucky. I knew what I wanted to do from a very early age. And, uh, a lot of that was just innate, uh, in that I felt this, this draw to serve, um, my grandfather was killed in world war II. So I grew up with, uh, the silk maps. They used to give aviators back then. Cause if you got a paper map and you hit the water, uh, it would disintegrate, but a silk map just got wet. Speaker 1 00:06:09 You could still use it. Um, uh, pictures of him and his squadron. He was a course air pilot, which was the plane that had the gold wings that would fold up like that to fit them on, on aircraft carriers, uh, his metals, his wings, those sorts of things. So I, I, I knew that I was gonna follow in his footsteps into the military, uh, but I didn't know exactly what I was gonna do until I was at the rip old age of seven. And that's when I found out about seals. And I remember going down to the library to do some research with my mom. She was a librarian, still is a librarian. And so we grew up with this love of reading and books everywhere, and she'd take every opportunity. She could to get us to the library and teach us how to research. Speaker 1 00:06:46 And, uh, and before the internet, that was a, that was, that was, that was the, that was the internet of the day, I guess. And going down to the library, looking up what seals were finding out about the underwater demolition teams, Scouts and Raiders, um, and you could pretty much read everything written about Naval special warfare back in the early eighties and about an hour, maybe an hour and a half, if you're a slow reader, cuz there wasn't that much written back then. But I remember the takeaways being, uh, Hey, these guys are some of the most elite special operators in the world and the training is some of the toughest ever devised by modern military. So at age seven I was in. But uh, but like I said, you could exhaust everything written about special operations fairly, fairly quickly back in their early eighties. Speaker 1 00:07:26 So when I hit about 10, then I started reading the books that my parents were reading. That's when hunt for red October came out, certainly by age 11 by sixth grade, I was reading the same types of books my parents were reading and then finding other similar authors in that genre that I was drawn to. Um, so I was reading books by David Morell who created Rambo back in 1972 with first blood, a book that's never been out of prince over the last 50 years. Um, uh, reading Nelson, dil, AJ Cornell, JC Pollock, mark olden, Steven Hunter, uh, all these guys who typically in the eighties, early nineties, they had protagonists with backgrounds that I wanted in real life one day. So it was like, uh, Marine sniper with Vietnam experience, Navy seal and Vietnam army special forces, Vietnam, CIA paramilitary in Vietnam. But that was for those who remember the quintessential eighties action hero, whether it was on TV movies or, or in a book that was kind of the background. Speaker 1 00:08:16 So I thought, you know, guys like David Morell and Nelson dil and AJ Cornell, these guys, they must have done some research into the backgrounds on these characters. So for me, it was a bit of research into what I was going to do later in life. Um, but at the same time I was enjoying this reading experience, this magic in these pages. And I didn't realize it, but I was really giving myself, uh, an early education in the art of storytelling. I was building this foundation upon which I continue to build today. And, uh, there was magic in those pages. And there was that thing that intangible that you can't really put your finger on, regardless of how many books on how to do something or how to write, uh, that you read and that's heart. And that's really what differentiates just a book or a good book from a great book. Speaker 1 00:09:01 And you can't, who knows what that is, but it's this and it's heart. So, uh, and then also my mom introduced me to Joseph Campbell, uh, through hero with a thousand faces, uh, when I was in 1988, cuz see that's when bill lawyers did his interviews with Joseph Campbell, uh, called the power of myth. I think three, um, books came out of those interviews. Um, I was enthralled because of course Joseph Campbell influenced George Lucas for star wars. And as a little kid, I was like, oh, this is amazing. And then even though I didn't realize it, I read, uh, the book I've read a few times now, but uh, looking at things, stories that I would read movies that I would watch television shows, uh, through that lens of the hero's journey. So that was influential as well because I didn't wake up one day as I was leaving the seal teams, uh, in my early forties and say, what should I have been reading for the last 30 plus years? Speaker 1 00:09:51 If I want to be a novelist, if I want to write these caps of thrillers, oh, let me write now let me go and read those because there's so many distractions today. We have responsibilities obviously. Uh, but then also I would've been reading those books through this lens with all sorts of filters that have built up over these years. And it wouldn't have been that magic that like an 11 year old, 12 year old, 13 year old, 14 year old gets from reading these books and the times that they're written and there was just, there was just something special about that. So I always knew that after my time in the military, specifically as a seal that I would write. And uh, so I have this foundation now of, uh, of reading. I have this Joseph Campbell influence early on, I'm studying warfare terrorism, insurgencies counterinsurgencies even as a young young kid, continued to do that today and then join the military, become a seal, September 11th happens. Speaker 1 00:10:39 And now I have this real world experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. So all those things came together at the right time and place during my last year in the military, as I'm getting out and decide to start writing this book and, and uh, going after this next dream. Uh, but all those things came together at the right time and place to inform the novel. And when I started, I thought, oh, you know, I'll get things like sniper rifles and calibers, right? And that sort of thing, I didn't realize how much of a personal writing experience it was gonna be until not even when I came up with the idea or the title or the one page executive summary, not even the outline, but when I started to turn that outline into the actual narrative and started to type that's when I realized, Hey, this is gonna be very personal. Speaker 1 00:11:20 And I think that's what made it resonate with Simon and Schuster and with readers is that even though it's a fictional narrative, the feelings and emotions that the protagonist feels are things that I felt at some point in real life. So if, uh, James Reese, my main character gets ambushed in Los Angeles, California. Uh, well I think back to what it was like to be ambushed in Bagdad Iraq in 2006, and then I apply those feelings and emotions directly to the novel. I don't have to go out and find someone in the military who is in an ambush interview them, uh, put that through these different filters of maybe other interviews I've conducted other interviews, I've read books, I've read movies, I've seen preconceived notions I may have, and then put it into a novel. No, it all comes directly right from my heart and soul directly onto that page. So I think that really, uh, really made it stand out, but that was a very long way of answering it, I Speaker 0 00:12:06 Think. Well, and you know, you've, you've talked about, um, the, the writing process of the terminal list as being a therapeutic experience for you. So, uh, perhaps you can speak to that personally in terms of, um, your own experience and uh, you know, were there things that were building up that were frustrating and do you think it's, it may also explain why it's, it could be a, a therapeutic experience for the, uh, for the reader as well, because again, as you've got this wild popularity, it's just on every single best seller list. Um, and then you've got kind of the, the critical, the critical response, again, iron ran experience, that same thing. So do, do you think that there's a, a feeling among people today, whether it's just frustration or powerlessness or that, uh, there's a, a lack of accountability and, and, uh, that, you know, your hero is of course bringing, bringing radical accountability yeah. Uh, to those abusing their power. Speaker 1 00:13:15 Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's something that always stood out to me growing up and reading these novels, uh, the conspiracy side of the house, of course, the underdog, uh, that has powerful forces aligned, aligned against him, um, and having to adapt and figure things out on the fly, unravel a conspiracy, and then go hold people accountable. Like that was to me, I loved that growing up. And, uh, and so I always knew I'd write something along those lines and that, uh, my first novel would be about revenge without constraint. Um, and I remember growing up also in the, in the eighties, since we're talking about it, and you have the voiceovers before movies, mm-hmm <affirmative> and you're sitting there in the previews and there was, you know, there was a movie about revenge or something like that. The voiceover guy in that voice that we remember from, from the eighties would always say he had nothing left to lose. And, uh, I always remember thinking, well, he could lose his life. <laugh>, you know, he could, there was things that he could lose. He could go to jail forever Speaker 0 00:14:09 Or right, Speaker 1 00:14:10 Right. Things. So when I sat down to run, I said, well, how do I take that away? That thing that always stood out to me as not being, um, really true to what I was going to watch it has, I had watched the whole movie, how do I, how do I remove that? How do I really make somebody have something left to lose? And I thought back to, uh, Samura and Japan, uh, and the code of Beto and how they would go into battle thinking they were already dead because that made them more effective and efficient warriors. And I thought, well, how do I apply that to a modern day warrior? And I was reading about the church hearings in the seventies and these different abuses by certain institutions of, uh, the federal government, particularly the CIA things they'd done in the fifties and the sixties and the seventies that came to light through these church hearings. Speaker 1 00:14:51 Um, the Frank Church of, of Idaho, um, uh, chaired. And there were some medical experiments that had gone on against, uh, or, uh, unbeknownst to these college students, um, prisoners, um, mental institution, patients mm-hmm <affirmative> members of the military. And so I thought, okay, well that this, this is, this is how I get him to really have nothing left to lose. He has the skill set, uh, he's been studying warfare his entire life. He's been to Iraq and Afghanistan, and now I really need to make him have nothing left to lose. And so that's where this, this testing of drugs on our nation's most elite soldiers comes into play that gives them brain tumors. So he thinks he's dying. Uh, and that frees him up to hold these people accountable and, uh, a little deeper level. It's really about somebody who becomes the insurgent that he's been fighting for at that time, the last 16 years at war now, it would be 20, um, and brings that war home to the front doors of people who have been sending young minute women to their deaths for, for 20 years now, mm-hmm <affirmative> so you can read it on a few, a few different levels, but holding people accountable at these higher levels definitely plays into, uh, most of my novels. Speaker 1 00:15:55 And, uh, because of this experience, I think over the it's, not that I liked that theme and I did, but also I got to experience it as did most of the country, as we watched senior level military, um, officers fail upwards over the last 20 years. Uh, there's a great book called the Afghanistan papers by Craig Whitlock, where he juxtaposes these conversations and recordings interviews that, uh, these military leaders had when they came back from, in this case, particularly Afghanistan, uh, that they thought was gonna remain classified. And then he juxta, there was a couple freedom of information act lawsuits by the Washington post. And those are now the, you can access them now, but what he does is he juxtaposes those with what they were saying to Congress. Um, and by default, the American people and their troops, and they're 180 out from one another and all of these, these senior level military leaders, these generals and they, and admirals, they all failed upward. And then what did they do after they got out? Uh, well, they sat on boards of companies, uh, connected to the military in the defense industry. So, um, you see that you see that happening, uh, military industrial complex is a, is a real thing. And, uh, and so my character, James Reese gets to go and, and hold them accountable in a fictional sense, which is wonderful because it also keeps me outta prison. Speaker 0 00:17:08 <laugh> um, alright, well, we are gonna be taking some audience questions soon. I haven't even peaked at them, but, uh, but I understand they're, they're going to be, uh, quite a few, but I still have, uh, quite a few questions, um, of my own. And again, going back to those, uh, similarities between, between your work and Rand's work, one thing I observed is that you have real heroes, you have real villains, right? That you're, you're, um, writing about fantastic, um, things that are happening, people doing extraordinary, uh, feats. And so I, I wonder, you know, uh, if, if that kind of contrasts, or if that was conscious sort of a, a pushback against, um, sort of the anti hero, that's, that's become very popular in, uh, some literary fiction. Um, yeah. Speaker 1 00:18:06 Yeah. The, the, the anti hero is interesting because it's, uh, you know, if any hero is dark, they just get labeled as an anti-hero it's, that's the easy default people don't really think about what it actually, what it actually means. Um, you know, there is a, there is a shift that you can see, particularly in film, uh, when you're talking about an, an actual anti-hero, um, but in this case, and some people have labeled James Reese that, but I think that's, uh, it's not quite right. And it's just, they just do it because yeah, there's darkness in the story. Um, and he essentially goes dark to do these things that he needs to do. So I get, they people have labeled him in anti-hero, but I've never, never seen him like that. Um, I see him definitely. I definitely don't see him like that. Uh, I definitely see him as a, uh, if you have to have a, a hero and a hero's journey, someone who was on that journey, he's a reluctant hero. Speaker 1 00:18:54 He didn't ask to do this. In fact, he was serving his country, um, and then got thrown into this conspiracy that killed his troop, his seal troop down range in the, in the book it's in Afghanistan and the series on Amazon prime it's in, in Syria to make it a little, uh, little, uh, more, uh, relevant today since we're Afghanistan. Um, and, uh, and he happens to have this skillset that allows him to go do these things. So sometimes when I read books or see movies, just because of my experience over the last 20 years, doing what I did, uh, and they try to make the, every man hero. I'm kind of like, eh, but he didn't really train for any of this. Uh, he's you're gonna fall to the level of your training under stress. And, uh, yeah, so this guy has that, uh, that skillset and he can flip that switch. Speaker 1 00:19:38 Um, but I also wanted to make him relatable. I wanted to make him somebody, uh, who was, you'd wanna have a beer with you wanna have a coffee with, uh, but who could flip that switch and get the job done. So I've never seen him as a, as an anti-hero, it's always been a hero. Um, and he's going to avenge the deaths of his troop and his family, and he's freed up to do so from normal societal constraints that may be in place, even if those things happened. But if you don't think you're already dying and you're not on the clock and every second doesn't count, um, well maybe you're gonna think, well, what if I live another 30 years or 40 years, and that I'm gonna live in prison, or I'm gonna be put, uh, be in some, the gas chamber, whatever it is, um, uh, the, the electric share or whatever. Um, well, he's freed from all of that. He doesn't have to spend one second thinking about that. All he needs to do is unravel this conspiracy, put that list together and start crossing people off the list in, uh, in very creative ways. So, uh, it's uh, yes, indeed. It's very therapeutic on, on a few different levels. Speaker 0 00:20:33 Yeah, no, and I, I highly recommend people that are currently now watching the series go back and read the books. Um, I highly recommend the, uh, the audible version. Um, and I'd, I'd love to learn a little bit about your narrator. How did you find Speaker 1 00:20:50 Him? And he's fantastic. Speaker 0 00:20:53 So, so much to Speaker 1 00:20:54 The yeah, he is, uh, he is amazing, but also I wanna, uh, my favorite chapter before I get to, to Ray, my favorite chapter that I've written thus far as in my last book, and it's not about, there's no tomahawks flying or knife fights or, uh, sniper shots, or, you know, things blowing up. It's a, uh, it's a conversation between my character, James Reese, and then the matriarch of the Hastings family and it's his, his friend's family. And so they're different generations. And she comes down to this cabin that Reese is living on, and they have a conversation. And as my favorite chapter I've ever written, because it really introduces this theme of forgiveness and the power of forgiveness. Um, and what really that illustrates is that Reese is on this journey. Like we all are, and hopefully he's learning from his successes and more importantly failures. Speaker 1 00:21:40 And as he moves along this path, he's asking questions and hopefully applying lessons learned from past experiences towards the future, in the form of wisdom. Um, and I think other than the, the feelings and emotions we talked about early earlier, what has also made this serious stand out is that he's on this journey. It's not the same person that you just pick up and okay, now he's gonna save the world from a nuclear explosion. Okay. Now he's gonna save the world from a, uh, bio weapon. Now he's gonna, and then, and he's not the same person in each book. He is evolving. And I think people recognize that he's on a journey as we are. So every single person that picks up this book or listens to it, uh, is on that journey with James Reese, but they recognize that they're on a journey as well. Speaker 1 00:22:23 So they have that in common with him because we all have that in common, regardless of party affiliation or politics or whatever, we're all on this journey going forward. So, uh, so I think that really makes him stand out, differentiates him a little bit from maybe some other characters that, uh, that are out there in the genre. But, uh, but to your question to Ray Porter, uh, I'm not an audible person. I have to have a physical book. I grew up that way. I love a physical book. And so Simon and Schuster before the novel came out back in 2018, they emailed me and said, uh, Hey, how does this person sound before for your narrator? And I clicked on it and I listened. And I was like, oh, he sounds way too old. Um, sounds kinda like Santa Claus is what I remember thinking. Speaker 1 00:23:00 And I wrote back, cause I'm a new guy. I have not sold one book. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, I'm not coming from politics or sports. I have zero following. I mean, I just created a social media account like two weeks before. Uh, and I said, well, uh, yeah, it's okay, but can I choose somebody else? And they said, yeah, just let us know by the end of the day. And, um, for those in New York publishing circles, you know, that, uh, that weekends are, are, uh, in the end of the day is taken very seriously. So, uh, looked at my watch. I'm like, oh, geez, I better get on this. And so I started listening to samples on audible and I came across Ray Porter and I think I came across him first on a non-fiction book that he was narrating. But then I started listening to other things by Ray Porter and I thought, oh, wow, this is the guy. Speaker 1 00:23:40 He can pull this off. And I had no idea that he was like at the top, you know, of the pyramid as far as narrators go and that he had a whole fan base and I had no idea. I just liked the voice. And I asked Simon and ser, I wrote back and said, how about Ray Porter? And they said, well, we can ask him. And of course what they're thinking is like, yeah, he's at the top, you're in total unknown. He's not gonna say yes to this. We'll ask him. And he said, yes. Um, and then, uh, it ended up being up for audible book, the audible. So audiobook of the year, it was up there with Steven King and Ruth Ware. We went to New York and put on the tux and got to hang out together. And now we're, we're dear friends. So he's just amazing. And he brought a whole fan base to the book that I didn't really know existed. People follow the narrator around to different projects. And I had no idea, but now I do. And so that where I chose wisely, but just based on the sound of his voice Absolut. Speaker 0 00:24:31 Yeah. He's all, we've got a ton of questions. So I gonna get started, uh, with some of those from our audiences, Robert bin, uh, says first priority, thank you, sir, for everything you've done for your country, we are grateful. And then he has a writer's question, uh, as he is also a writer, he says, you clearly are a methodical thinker. Are you a methodical writer, two, are you a plotter or, uh, answer, Speaker 1 00:25:02 Right? Yes. Um, I'm not a, I am a plotter and I like to know where I'm going. So my book, a process, and it's been this way for all the books thus far to include the sixth book that I'm working on right now. And, uh, I come up, well, first I write this one page executive summary, and then I ask myself two questions. I read it. And I say, is this worth one year of my life? And if the answer is, yes, I read it again. And kinda like a, it would be on a jacket or like be on the inside flat kinda of the book. And, uh, and I read it again and I say, is this worth someone else's time? Is it gonna add value to their life? Uh, knowing that they're never gonna get the time back that they spend in these pages or spend listening to it, if it's on an audio book, um, is it gonna add value to their life? Speaker 1 00:25:43 Will they pick up this book and read it and will they, will they listen to it? Uh, and the answer to that is yes or at least I think so then, uh, then that's my project for the next year. So I take that one page executive summary pretty much by that point, I have a theme, but I'll make sure that that is broken out a one about a one sentence theme, maybe two sentence theme these days. Um, and then I have a title, even if it's a working title, because I don't wanna have any bandwidth wasted on worrying about coming up with a good title. I just want down there. I want all my energy and effort to go into making it the best book it can possibly be and not have this lingering little thing here. It's like, you better come up with a good title. Speaker 1 00:26:18 They've all been good so far better come. So I don't want that in there. So I have a title I have about a one se sentence, uh, theme. Let's keep me on track. I have this one page executive summary, and then I turn that one page executive summary into an outline and the key to the outline for me anyway. And everybody has a different process, is that if I come to a point where I can't figure something out or I'm like, oh, geez, how is he ever gonna get out of this? Or, oh boy, uh, I don't know if I set this up well enough or people gonna go along with it, or I go around it. I put a bunch of Xs right there and I just keep going. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because I know I have a year to do this. So over the course of that year, I am confident that whatever question I had, whatever problem I needed to solve, I can solve because it's not the battlefield, there's not bullets flying, but I'm gonna do similar things. Speaker 1 00:27:02 I'm gonna capitalize on momentum. I'm gonna look for gaps in the enemy's defenses. I'm gonna adapt. Um, and I'm gonna apply all that to this problem set, which is now on the written page. So if I mess it up, I can fix it tomorrow. Uh, not the same stakes as being down range with the guys and having to make a decision under fire. Um, but, uh, but, but it's, it's, it is similar cuz you're problem solving and I'm aggressively problem solving down range and I'm aggressively problem solving on the page, but you know what, I can sleep on it and I can come back to it and I can edit it. Um, so that's typically how I go through the outline. I don't let it trip me up and same thing as I turning that into the narrative, if I still haven't figured out when I get to that part, well it's days Xs and I'll come back to it because I know as I continue working, I will figure it out. Um, so that's been the process thus far and uh, yeah, to include this one that I'm working on right now. Speaker 0 00:27:51 Fascinating. All right. We're getting some, uh, questions about current events. Uh, Jacob, pat failed on zoom asks, do you think wokeness in the military is an actual problem? Yeah. Is it, I mean there, some people will say it's demoralizing and it's distracting and, and say it's, you know, contributing to the, the difficulty in meeting, uh, recruitment quotas, but mm-hmm, <affirmative> those people aren't you. So Speaker 1 00:28:19 Yeah, no, I would say anything that is not, uh, focused on preparing the troops for war is wasted time. Um, so, so that's kind of what I think of the, the wokeness. Um, of course you get senior level military people who, um, I know come to it from a little bit of an elitist standpoint, perhaps, and maybe a little more of a political standpoint, uh, because as I talk about in my novels, not all the time, but sometimes when you hit certain ranks, uh, you're thinking about making that next one. And then when you get even higher up, you're thinking about, uh, where you're gonna go after that and what boards you're gonna sit on and, uh, actions you can take today to set you up for the future. Um, that's a real thing. Um, and in the military, as, as horrible as it is to say, uh, as long as you don't, uh, pop positive on a drug test or, uh, get a DUI or back, you know, too many DUIs maybe. Speaker 1 00:29:13 Um, and, uh, and don't go to jail for some sort of like spousal abuse or something like you don't do those three things. You can stay in the military for a long time. Um, just being very, very average. Uh, and, uh, and a lot of the people that's notice that they get out along the way and go do other things more, uh, entrepreneurial in nature. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, uh, a lot of times, but, uh, so I think that anything that is not directly preparing us or indirectly preparing us for war and making us a more effective and efficient fighting force, uh, doesn't belong in the military. It is definitely a distraction. Speaker 0 00:29:49 Okay. Back to writing guardian gamer on YouTube asks, do you ever run into writer's block and how do you overcome that? Speaker 1 00:29:57 Yeah, so I don't, and, uh, I don't have time for writer's block. Maybe someday I will, but not right now, there is too much going on and, you know, you can almost read about how to do something too much, cuz there's so much information out there these days, particularly online, but uh, there's some books I read, I read on writing by Steven King of course, which is essentially an autobiography of, of Stephen King mm-hmm <affirmative> um, a successful novelist by David Morell, um, on the first five pages. So there's a couple things that I read, but then I read a series of books on creativity by Stephen Presfield and the first one is called the war of art. Um, and he has the others are, uh, the authentic swing turning pro do the work. Uh, they're fantastic. They're very quick reads and uh, actually, yeah, he's out there. Speaker 1 00:30:40 He's out. He lives out there in California. So even Pressfield now we're friends. He's an amazing guy, but on one, in one of those books, he talks about that. He talks about how you've never heard about a truck driver having truckers block or a dentist having dentist block. You're a professional, you're a writer, you sit down and write. And uh, for whatever reason, that was very freeing, uh, for me to read that from somebody like him. Uh, so that along with doing the work, uh, just sitting down and doing it, um, those two things were probably some of the best pieces of advice that I had going into this. But, uh, but yeah, I don't, don't have writer's block look, I don't have time there's too much going on. And uh, and I always think about that, uh, that those words from Steven Presfield and it's so true, you're a professional. Speaker 1 00:31:23 If you're a professional, if you think of yourself as a professional, which I did, as soon as I left the military, I was a professional special operator one day. And then the next day I thought of myself as a professional writer, even though I had had nothing published, I had not sent my first book to Simon in Schuster yet. And I was already on my way to Africa to research my second novel, true believer. I hadn't been to Mozambique. Um, and I knew I needed to go there. I'd been to, I'd been to Ukraine and I'd been to Morocco, which are two important places in my second novel. I'd been there in the past, but I hadn't been to Mozambique. So I went over there for a couple weeks, put boots on the ground, learned so much about what was going on over there and put that local flavor into the, into the novel. Speaker 1 00:31:58 But I mentioned that because on the way in, on that customs form, it says occupation and I wrote down writer or author. I have to go back in my, in my, go back to the cloud and find the picture cause I took a picture of it. Um, but the point was that I already thought of myself as a professional writer, even though I had nothing published, uh, yet. And I wouldn't send the book to Simon and Schuster until, uh, until I got back from that trip. And uh, so I think it's a lot of that's mindset and just don't let that writer's block creep in. Speaker 0 00:32:25 Fascinating. Um, so you, you mentioned having read, uh, Steven King's on writing, which of course was, um, a kind of a memoir. Did you happen to read iron rans? Um, on fiction? Speaker 1 00:32:40 No I haven't, but I have not read it, so I need to read it and I got it not too long ago, maybe a year or two ago. Um, but I have not read it. Yes. And I need to, Speaker 0 00:32:50 Well, it's, it's very interesting because it's also a fun way to experience some of the novels that, um, that she chooses as sort of, uh, case studies, if you will. Um, they've gone with the wind and thorn birds. Um, so yeah, she, it, it would be interesting. Speaker 1 00:33:11 I inspired me. You've inspired me to, to go back to it. Uh, yeah. These days it's so like I'm just going a thousand miles an hour. I know time. Well, Speaker 0 00:33:18 That's why I was like, oh my God. He's actually said, yes, we're we're gonna have Speaker 1 00:33:22 An oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah. Any chance to, to get to talk to, to you about these things. I, I love it. Um, but, uh, but I need to go read that, but I heard Lee child who recently retired from writing course. He wrote the, the Jack ER series and he was on an interview and somebody asked him what he's looking forward to most about retirement and his brother is taken over the series now. Um, but he said, I'm looking forward to, to reading for fun. Um, and I thought about that. I'm like, yeah, that's true. Cause everything that I do now really is focused on research for the novels. Uh, and I, I don't sit down anymore and just put my feet up in a, in a lawn share or a hammock and just read for fun. So, uh, have a few years to go until I can, can do that, I think, but that's what he talking about. And, uh, and same thing with, uh, with this book here, it's been sitting on my shelf. So I need to, I actually need to read that, Speaker 0 00:34:13 Um, anything that surprised you in working on the, the series with Chris Pratt, maybe tell a little bit about, um, how that came about, because I remember you're being asked once, um, for advice to a, uh, that you'd give to a recent college graduate and you, you said read, read, read, but you also said, um, never miss an opportunity to make somebody's day. And, um, and I thought of that because, um, the, the story of how this novel actually got, uh, launched on its way, started with your actually trying to make somebody's day. So yeah. Enjoy that story. Speaker 1 00:34:56 Absolutely. Absolutely. I passed along to the kids. You never miss an opportunity to, to make somebody's day. And that doesn't mean go running around like a chicken with your head cut off, just trying to, to do good deeds. It means as Speaker 0 00:35:06 You're not altruistically, not self-sacrificing because as your story shows it, it really came around to be a very wise investment. Speaker 1 00:35:14 It, it did. I didn't obviously didn't think of it that way at the time, but, um, you know, where it really means is you go through your day and you have an opportunity to make somebody else's like, don't pass up that opportunity. And it's not because it might come around. It's just cuz it's the, it's the right thing to do just as a, as a human, as a, as a citizen. But uh, in this case, yeah, so the novel was coming out in March of 2018 and I got a call in November, 2018 from a seal buddy and I hadn't talked to him in five years and so I pick up and first he asked me if I remembered him and I said, yes. And uh, then he asked me if I remember what I did for him in the seal teams and I did not. Speaker 1 00:35:48 And he said, well, you're the only person who sat me down in your office, talked about the transition process out of the military. After you found out I was getting out, you introduced me to people in the private sector and then you followed up with me afterward and I've never forgotten it. And I always wanted to thank you. And um, I said, no problem, how's it going? And he said, well, it's going great. But uh, I heard you have a book coming out. And I said, yeah, it's coming out in a few months. I have this gal copy, which is like a rough draft. I can send you if you'd like to read it. And he said, I'd like that, but I'd also like to share it with a friend of mine. And I said, yeah, no problem. Who's that? And he said, uh, Chris Pratt. Speaker 1 00:36:20 And I said, oh, interesting. That's convenient because, uh, that's exactly who I pictured starring in the series as I was writing it. So, um, yeah, that's uh, he gave it to Chris and Chris read it at the end of December last week in December of 2017, then called the first week in January, 2018. I wanna adoption it. So now Jared Shaw, the person who, uh, who called me and gave the book to Chris, he's an actor in the show he plays Boozer and uh, he, uh, is also a producer and a technical advisor. So, uh, yeah, it's uh, but once again, it wasn't, I didn't think, Hey, you know, what, if I help this person out, it's gonna come around one day. It was just, just the right thing to, to do. I always tried to help people who were good guys who were staying in or getting out and, uh, in this case, it, uh, yeah, it did happen to pay off in, uh, in this case. And uh, and we got to make a really cool show. Speaker 0 00:37:09 So, um, tell us a little bit about your time on set. Uh, what was that like? Um, what were there, was there a process of saying, Hey, listen, I'm, I'm going to be giving my baby over to these very creative, talented people and I'm gonna have to let go to, to an extent Speaker 1 00:37:30 Yep. Cause you know, the hard changes, right. I knew that was, uh, I knew that was gonna happen and I expected it. And I remember reading first blood, the novel written by David Morre and then watching the movie with Sylvester Stallone. They came out in 1983. So it was 11 year year difference between those and both fantastic, but very different. And also there's a book by AJ Cornell, uh, called man on fire. They did a, um, a movie in the eighties about it and then they did another remake in, uh, early two thousands with Denzel Washington, uh, that movie in with Denzel Washington. Amazing, very different than the book. Um, but I knew that you're, now you're gonna tell a story visually there will be changes. So my goal was always, and the goal of Antoine Fuqua, the director, uh, Chris Pratt, uh, the show runner David Dio, and for those listening and watching it's, uh, the show runner is like what a, a feature film director is, but two serious television. Speaker 1 00:38:21 So they're the singular point of contact for essentially everything that happens over all these eight series eight part series. And, uh, and what was important to them were the, the same things that were important to me, which is keeping the story grounded in the foundation of the novel, knowing that we're gonna change it because we're telling the story visually. And, uh, for me, I was a student I'm always a, always a student. I'm a student of this craft. I'm a student of warfare. Um, and so I was a student of now telling a story through this process, starting with a pilot episode and writing that pilot episode with the show runner, uh, meaning that I was just advising on it and just learning, just soaking it all in. And he was fantastic. Mentored me along. We've talked for the first time in December of 2019, we've talked every day since. Speaker 1 00:39:01 And uh, usually they get rid of the author right away. They don't want the author on set saying you ruined my vision, which is typically what happens. Uh, so for them to include me in every part of this process, uh, to include the writer's room to include on set, to include editing, um, and to include like the premier, like going up there on stage with the actors, um, has been just beyond, beyond belief, but there's a lot of trust there. You hand something over to someone in Hollywood, you're trusting them because now you're turning it over and essentially they can do whatever they want with it. Uh, but in this case we had such trust built up amongst us and we were such a solid team. Uh, and then being on set, it really reminded me of a military operation, uh, walked on set and you have, uh, just like in the military, you have to feed everybody and there's craft food services, uh, in a seal platoon, you have the explosives expert, you have explosions going off on set. Speaker 1 00:39:50 So they have an explosive guy there. Um, there's an armorer in a, in a seal team. Uh, same thing on set. They're passing the weapons back and forth between the actors inventorying them at the end of the day. Um, there's a mobility person on set, same thing in a seal team. There's a mobility person. Make sure all the vehicles are all ready to go. Gased up, uh, before an operation or after an operation. So they're ready to go in case you gotta go quick, uh, same thing. There's mobility person on set, making sure all the vehicles are there, building the vehicles, finding the right ones, sourcing them. Uh, then you have your commanding officer and that's Antwan Fuqua. He's the director up there at the top setting the tone strategically for everybody. And then you have Chris Pratt down here. He' like the tactical level setting the tone down there. Speaker 1 00:40:28 And I had so many people come up to me on set and they didn't need to, but they tracked me down on set and said, Hey, and they said something very similar. They said, I've been involved in hundreds of these productions in Hollywood. And none of them have felt like this. Um, there's something special about this set. Everyone is so encouraging and positive. And, uh, you know, I, I put that right back on Antoine and on Chris for setting that tone being so encouraging, inspiring Chris being so funny, bringing that humor to set every day, um, and being so approachable, normal, uh, someone you wanna sit down and have a beer with. Uh, and that's really, that's really what I wanted out of the character. And it just so happens that, uh, in real life, Chris is the same way. It's fantastic human being. Uh, and then everybody on set has a specific job and they're all so good at it. Speaker 1 00:41:12 That was another takeaway. When you hear stories about Hollywood, about somebody not being able to do something because it's not part of, it's not part of their union contract. It's not cuz they don't wanna work it's because this thing is like a Lamborghini speeding down the track over 200 miles an hour. And if you're not doing what you've been hired to do the thing that you're the best in the world at, uh, and you go over here to do something else. Well that's when tinnk, that's when not Lamborghini, it's not like a Ford truck or something that you're like, ah, I can make it to the next gas station. No that thing's going off the track and it's not gonna work unless that person is doing their specific job at the top of their game, the best they can possibly do it. So, uh, so now I understand why those, those rules are in place. So, um, so all those were were takeaways from the set and it was, it was an amazing experience. Speaker 0 00:41:55 You know, if they're gonna make another one or we Speaker 1 00:41:58 Shall see the question, that is the question Speaker 0 00:42:02 I could tell you do know. Speaker 1 00:42:03 Well, no, we'll see, I had the I'm I've worked on the outline. I have an eight part series ready to go for season two and uh, if Amazon wants it, then uh, then we'll see. But it's, uh, they have to figure that out with Chris and uh, see one people to do it, which I think he does. And then, uh, to his schedule. So like that are kind of booked up well in advance. So there's a lot of things they need to work out. So hopefully it happens, but you never know. Speaker 0 00:42:30 All right. Another question here. Um, and folks we've got about 15 more minutes, so we could take a couple more questions, um, go ahead and type them in. We'll try to get to them, uh, on YouTube, Sarah, uh, Simmons asks about the, um, emergency, uh, use authorization in the terminal list. Is it current practice for the military to experiment, use experimental drugs, um, using emergency use authorization? Speaker 1 00:42:59 You're gonna have to go back in the memory banks. Cause I was started writing that in December of 2014. So I wrote through 2015 into early 16 is when I finished up that, that first draft and then started that editing, editing process before I sent it to New York. Um, so I'm sure that came from either an interview I did with a doctor or probably that and research in this case, since it was medical, probably online, I have a lot of books, but just not a lot of medical books. Um, so I think it came from there and I think we saw something similar with COVID right. Emergency youth authorizations for, for COVID tests and Speaker 0 00:43:31 Yeah. Yeah. And I wanted to, to ask you about that as, as well. I mean, um, you know, the, we knew very, very early on that, uh, that, that the elderly, um, and people with certain underlying conditions were the most vulnerable. Um, and you know, you, you think about people like, uh, Navy seals as, as being incredible, you know, in top physical form. So, uh, just wonder about the wisdom overall of having, uh, spent the past couple of years, treating everybody like as if they were nine, you know, a 90 year old, um, mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, immunity system, but, uh, from what you hear, how, how is, is the, um, the vaccine mandates in the military? Is it a big deal or people are like, Hey, well they made me take so many other, you know, um, <laugh> yeah. Vaccines and shots and, and whatever. I, you know, I, I signed up for it doesn't matter. Speaker 1 00:44:34 Right? Yeah, no, I, I do give you a lot of shots. Uh that's for sure. Most of them are tried and true and ones that, uh, you, uh, you get a bootcamp and it's just kind of like, if you're gonna travel overseas and you get a recommendation from your, from your doctor's kind of those kind of, kind of shots mm-hmm <affirmative> um, that if you're gonna go take a safari in Africa and your doctor says, get this, you're kinda like if they were to recommend that 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you're probably been like, oh, okay. Or most people would probably say that, okay, it's been around for a long time. I'm going to Africa. I should probably get this thing. All right. Um, the mistrust, the distrust of government these days is, I mean, I dunno if it's at an all time high or not, but it is certainly, uh, near being an all time high social media does not help it. Speaker 1 00:45:18 Um, it cuz it having that distrust, even though we, we are looking at our elected officials and I don't call them leaders cuz there our elected representatives, um, they benefit because they get to keep us divided and uh, put us in camps and uh, and by camps, I don't mean actual camps, not yet anyway. Um, but camps that help them get reelected. And then we have these tech monopolies obviously, and it benefits them right outta the gate. It did 20 years ago because of advertising, but then they're gathering data and now, okay, we can influence people, not just make them want to click something because now they've seen it for the, the third time over the course of a, a certain period. And we're no they're gonna take that action. Well now we can influence not only those behaviors, but thoughts because they have so much data. Speaker 1 00:46:04 So you have these, this, so all that is not, I mean it's fairly common knowledge and that leads to this distrust, which is interesting because that distrust then fuels us going into these different camps that benefit those same people that I just talked about, the tech monopolies and these, uh, these elected representatives that need to get reelected. Um, so I guess that's a long way of saying that it's different because of the era that we're in and um, and you just, it's so hard to figure out who to trust. Um, and when you're in the military, yeah. You gotta salute and kind of do what, what they say ish. But, uh, it seems like in this case, in particular, when you're rushing something out there that's not tried and true. Remember the people that got, uh, and I was one of them that got a couple, I think I got like one an track shot. We're supposed to get six. Maybe I, my memory might be a little foggy, but after I got that first one, I was like, oh man, what? I did some research on it. And I was like, I really don't wanna get the rest of these. And, uh, it was probably, I was definitely not supposed to do it, but they just put it in your felt gun decking and they just put it in your record, like you got them. Um, but, uh, so it wasn't quite Speaker 0 00:47:12 The same, you know, people weren't Speaker 1 00:47:14 Getting quite the same. It wasn't like, I don't think I'm intentionally being in infected with something or I don't think this doesn't work. I remember doing the research on anthrax and I think it worked only against a very specific like strain that was delivered in a specific way and the odds of it actually getting delivered that way. We're so minuscule. And I was kind of like, eh, but most of us, I don't think, uh, you know, after we did that research, I don't think most of us got that. Um, but this seems like it's tough cuz they're just shoving it down your throat. Um, and you don't know who to trust. Um, so it's a tough one. It is definitely a tough one and it continues to divide and good people are leaving the military because of it. Um, so it's a, Speaker 0 00:47:54 Well, you know, I think that that some people would say that there, um, if there was any justification at all, it was when there was this belief that, um, you would get this shot, you'd get these shots and, and then you wouldn't get it. You wouldn't spread it. Right. We now know that's not true. So the sort of, um, justification from mandating that people in the military or other people get it because then they won't be a danger to other people, um, that, that kind of seem to fall apart. Um, Speaker 1 00:48:28 No, there's that. And, uh, and, and once again, it's that, uh, that trust factor. So now we trust the government even less, cuz it's like, see, look it, you guys are supposed to be, you're supposed to be making the good strategic level decisions up here. Uh, if we make the bad tactical level decisions down at this level will be held accountable yet you can make mistake after a mistake at these higher levels, nothing happens to you. In fact, you fail forward. Um, so it's, uh, so they, then you have more distrust between those more junior level people who are actually going to war. Uh, and then those senior level people who are not, or if they go to war they're in an air conditioned taxation center, uh, allocating assets, uh, from the rear, that's just how it is these days. Um, so yeah, it's, it's so tough and I'm so glad that I am not in the military cuz you can't really go back and say, oh we, what I do is this, um, cuz you're, you're removed from it and it's not fair to do that to, to the guys that are, that are in. Speaker 1 00:49:23 Um, but uh, but it's gotta be tough on them. It's gotta be well. Speaker 0 00:49:27 And you know, given the difficulty in meeting these recruitment, uh, quotas right now, it, it just seems, uh, seems suicidal. Um, you mentioned going to these different countries, doing your research, you spent some time in Ukraine, um, assuming you hadn't been there before, did your time there and what you learned your research about the country, did it give you any kind of unique perspective on what's happening now? Speaker 1 00:49:52 Not really what's happening now, but more so. I went there when I was quite young and I remember going into the CaTECH homes and I remember going down there and seeing these tunnels and seeing where they had, uh, hospitals set up, uh, like these whole cities essentially underground. Um, so that came into play at the end of my, of my second novel. So I thought geographically, it works for the way things are, are flowing here and I needed something that was gonna be, uh, cause the first one was very personal. The first story, the one that's on Amazon prime is very personal. It's very primal, it's very visceral. And for the second one, I needed to take some, some risks. So, um, the safe thing to have done and for the second book would've been, uh, take what I did in the first one. And instead of having it be in the United States, drop it in Europe, drop it in Africa, drop it in south America, whatever. Speaker 1 00:50:35 Um, but have a very similar type of a storyline. And uh, I didn't wanna do that. I wanted to make sure that I took a risk to differentiate myself from what would be the safe choice and test myself a little bit. So I, and I thought it would be disingenuous to the reader too after the, uh, the events of the first novel to just have James Reese, all of a sudden be recovered and, and doing, uh, another mission somewhere else. Um, so he had to go on a journey. He had to go on a, uh, journey of violent redemption learn to live again. Um, and I went back to thinking about what it's like to transition outta the military, but really anything in life, um, and start something new, learn to live again, find that next mission, find that next passion. And I take James Reese there and then I take it away from him and uh, pull him back into the fold. Speaker 1 00:51:20 Um, but geographically it works to have his journey continue up through Morocco and then over into essentially end up in, in Ukraine. Um, but I love those being in those catacombs was so interesting. I thought about, uh, all the, like the kids in that that would had to live down there, um, and just how they had to essentially, uh, survive. And so that, so in that, in, in that case, it wasn't really the geopolitical side there, but it so happened to coincide with the characters that I had developed and uh, this Russian character. And I needed him a reason to kind of go back into Russia to take the, to, to lead again. He'd been kind of ostracized and, and uh, excommunicated essentially, uh, and needed to figure out a way to have Russia invade Ukraine. And so, so I did that. And then of course now that's happened. Speaker 1 00:52:08 So for the second season of the show, I have to figure out now how to come up with some other geopolitical type of event that things are rushing towards because in the book and spoiler alert, uh, yeah, it's, uh, he, James re saves the day and that doesn't happen well, now it has happened. And that book came out in 2019. Um, so now I gotta figure out another, another situation like that. Um, but, uh, but yeah, being there in person and putting boots on the ground spending some time there. Uh, I remember it, I remember at fondly, same thing with Morocco. I spent Morocco there, uh, spent time in Morocco when I was very young as well. And I remember the sites and the smells. I remember America, I remember the orange juice on the streets that you could get fresh squeezed. Uh, I remember the colors, um, or the marketplace. Um, and so I put up, I put a CIA black site there and interestingly enough, for my first three novels, I submitted 'em to the military because I was kind of, so, so close to have been. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:53:00 Well, I wanted to ask about all of the redacted, what what's that about? Speaker 1 00:53:02 Yeah. So I did that and uh, at the first book they took out nine things, the department of pre publication and security review, and they're all things that were publicly available from the government, not from other books or Wied or something. Um, and so at the time I was just like, okay, let's leave those in there. And I'll just, you know, keep them blacked out. Uh, people can guess as to what they are. It's not, it's not difficult. Uh, so I did the same thing with my second book and they got back to me in 45 days. They're supposed to get back to you in 30 and I thought 45, that's pretty good for a gigantic government bureaucracy. And so I submitted the second book, true believer and one month goes by two months, three months, four months, five months, six months creeping up on seven months, we have to push the publication date. Speaker 1 00:53:40 It comes back for 54 redactions. And now this time, now I have lawyers at this point. So I'm like, all right, well, we're gonna publish it with these redactions, but let's put together, uh, an appeal which you're allowed to do within a certain amount of time. And we did that and they tied each and every one of those 54 redactions to a publicly available government document. So something, anyone in the world can download from our own government. Uh, and we, and they let me win on 37 of those 54. Um, and, uh, the other ones were still tied to those publicly available government documents, but they didn't let me win on them. So they're still in the paperback. So I unredacted it for the paperback. So you can open the paperback, look at the hard cover and see what the government thought was so sensitive. Speaker 1 00:54:19 One of those was a CIA Blackside in Morocco. They took out, they took out Morocco. Obviously they took out any reference to the Atlas mountains, Morris architecture. And so what that does though, when I unredacted it, what does that tell us? It tells us that there's probably a CIA Blackside in Morocco. And I had no idea that there was, I just made it up. It made sense geographically. And so then for the third one, submit, it takes a long time. They get back, uh, published it with the redactions that my lawyers tie those to publicly available government documents again, but this time they wouldn't let me appeal. Uh, and I think that's their way of telling me that, uh, Hey kid, quit, uh, quit taking up our time with this fiction stuff. We have important work to do here at the United United States government. Uh, so I don't submit them anymore, which is a good thing because I wouldn't want them taking out things that I learned after my time in the military. Speaker 1 00:55:07 Like in the, my fourth novel, uh, the devil's hand, I go deep into bio weapons research. Uh, I had no touchpoint with that in the military, but I have a feeling they would've taken out a few things. And then in the blood, I really go deep into artificial intelligence and, uh, quantum computing. And, uh, that was scary, scary military application. I think it was scary doing the research. It was scarier than the bio weapons research that I'd done for the previous novel. Um, but I think they probably would've redacted some things. And for those who have read it, there's a, uh, uh, there's a facility that I, that I write about and I would be shocked if that facility wasn't very close to, uh, exactly how I describe it in the book. Speaker 0 00:55:45 Well, we are putting links to, uh, all of the series on the various platforms. So everyone, it is, uh, Jack car, it's the terminal list series. The title book is the terminal list. The latest is in the blood, but it has a better, um, <laugh> Speaker 1 00:56:03 Yeah, you have the UK cover. So Speaker 0 00:56:05 It's not that cover. That's, that's the cover that I Speaker 1 00:56:09 Remember. It's so funny. They sent that one to you's those audible. Yeah. Interesting. Speaker 0 00:56:13 And, uh, yeah. So where are you in the process of, of the next book? I mean, cuz you know, you you're basically pumping one out a year. Speaker 1 00:56:22 Yep. It's one a year. Like Speaker 0 00:56:23 How many, how long did it take you to write it? You write it in Speaker 1 00:56:26 Six months. It has to take a year. There's a little overlap though, between editing and starting the next one. Okay. And my goal this year is to get a little more, uh, organized, uh, up to this point, I felt like what I'm doing is kinda like a startup in a garage and you have a product, let's say it's a computer in 1978 and you're building it in your garage and you're letting people know about what it is and you're doing demonstrations on, uh, on how it works. Uh, and that sort of a thing. And you're just running and you're just in a full on sprint and it's just you, uh, and uh, then you slowly start adding people maybe as you start to grow a little bit. So that's the kind of the phase that, uh, that I'm in right now is the one where it's time to, to get organized so that I can maybe instead of having taking a year to write these books, because I'm doing so many other things, mm-hmm, <affirmative> get organized enough where it's just taking six months and allows me to do some other projects and have some other Hollywood projects in the works as well. Speaker 1 00:57:17 And if they don't work, that's, that's fine. It's just fun that people are interested and it's, uh, I can turn them into books later, later on. Um, but allows me to, to do some of these other projects as well and create and write into those things that I, that I love to do. So, um, so yeah, this is the year of, uh, of getting organized, but right now it's still taking a year and it's always down to the, down to the wire sprinting across that finish line, Speaker 0 00:57:37 Which is all the more, uh, reason why we're so grateful that you took this time. Um, he shows up on time, he shows up early and we're gonna get him out of here on time. And, uh, again, the latest book in series is in the blood. Um, and uh, definitely go on Amazon, check out the terminal list series with Jack prat. Definitely read the book and um, and we'll keep talking. I wanna hear what you think of IRA's, uh, art of fiction and uh, and also maybe get you out here. Uh, one for one of our, our dealers, one of these here, so stay tuned. So sounds wonderful. Thank you again so much. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your art. Thank you for your spirit. And, uh, we will be watching and we will be, uh, uh, eagerly eagerly waiting, uh, for the next in the series. Speaker 1 00:58:28 Aw, thank you so much for having me. It's been, it's been a true pleasure. Thank you. Thank you Speaker 0 00:58:32 All.