The Atlas Society Asks Antonella Marty

August 26, 2021 00:59:07
The Atlas Society Asks Antonella Marty
The Atlas Society Presents - The Atlas Society Asks
The Atlas Society Asks Antonella Marty
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CEO of La Sociedad Atlas and Senior Fellow at The Atlas Society, Antonella Marty is the Associate Director of the Center for Latin America at Atlas Network, the Director of the Center for American Studies at Fundación Libertad (Argentina) and Senior Fellow at Fundación Internacional para la Libertad (Spain) thinktank led by Nobel laureate Mario Vargas Llosa. She is also a Latin American Policy Fellow at the Consumer Choice Center and the host of the podcast Hablemos Libertad and author of the Spanish-language books The Intellectual Populist Dictatorship (2015), What Every Revolutionary of the 21st Century Should Know (2018), The Libertarian Handbook (2021), and the recent English publication of Capitalism: Antidote to Poverty (2021).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 The seventh episode of the Atlas society asks, my name is Jennifer Anji Grossman. My friends know me as JAG. I am the CEO of the Atlas society. We are the leading organization, introducing young people to the ideas of iron Rand in fun, creative ways, like our animated videos and graphic novels. Today, I am joined by my colleague and my friend, and to Nella Marty. She's the CEO of Sociodad Atlas. We're going to get into that and introduce her in a moment, but I just wanted to remind all of you who are joining us by zoom or watching us on the various platforms. We're live streaming, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and, uh, put her, um, you know, them all at this point. Go ahead, start typing in your questions into the chat. We're going to get to as many of them as we can please make them short. Speaker 0 00:01:01 Uh, and, um, yeah, here we go. So, uh, on may, first of this year and Nella joined the outlet society as a senior fellow, and also as the CEO of Sociodad Atlas, which has fast become the leading organization in Latin America, that is introducing that audience to the ideas of Iran through regular interviews, uh, social media videos, and our recent John Galt, 2021 conference and to Nella is an Argentinian libertarian speaker and author. She's also the director of the Atlas network for Latin America. She has written four books, the populist intellectual dictatorship, what every 21st century revolutionary needs to know, um, and capitalism and antidote to poverty, which I have read and it's original Spanish. Uh, and most recently she wrote the libertarian hand handbook. Now remember, well, liberal, I'm very also excited that this is an interview that I'm doing with her in English. Usually when we speak in Spanish, as we did a few months ago, when we did an interview in Spanish that attracted over 7,000 views across our various social media platforms. So, um, I wanted to make sure that our English speaking audience had a chance to get to know, and to Noah, uh, and hear her insect sites. So Antonella give Anita welcome. Speaker 1 00:02:42 Thank you, Jennifer. Thanks for having me and thank you for your kind introduction and for inviting me to this conversation with the Atlas society. Thank you. Uh, also, uh, to the people listening on the other side of, of the screen. Speaker 0 00:02:57 Yes. And I mentioned Nella is, uh, four books that she's written, but I am in the process of reading a fifth, uh, that she managed to write. And in all of her spare time, I I'm beginning to wonder if this woman doesn't doesn't sleep. Um, and that's going to be a, um, a Q and a frequently asked questions about objectivism. It's going to come out for us in Spanish. And then I hope in English as well. Uh, so Antonella, let's just start by setting the stage a bit about you, tell us where you grew up. How did you become so passionate about the ideas of Liberty in general, and also of course your, your iron Rand origin story. Well, Speaker 1 00:03:49 As you, as you rightly pointed out, I was born in Argentina, a country where, uh, you know, the state has grown decade after decade. Uh, more precisely I was born in, uh, in the city of Rosario, a city where socialism has, uh, flourished. And, um, in fact, you know, what Mr. <inaudible>, uh, killers in, in, in one of the leaders of the Cuban revolution, he was born there. He was born in my city and the city is full of monuments with, with his face. You know, you can see everywhere. Um, and that's, that's always part of, of the hypocrisy of the socialist, right? Uh, who at some point can then, uh, some dictatorships or some dictators and they defend, uh, others. So, uh, anyway, in the city over, sorry, there's a think tank called, uh, <inaudible>. And about 12 or 13 years ago when I was a student in international relations, I went to this, uh, think tank for a training workshop on I liberal ideas, um, where I heard, um, you know, about the dangers of collectivism populism, Marxism. Speaker 1 00:05:00 And that gave me a lot of, I can say a lot of tools for the, Vates a lot of information that, that in fact, in my university, uh, even though I wasn't, I was, you know, going to a private university, I didn't hear this sort of ideas because in Latin America, you know, where the location is quite, uh, controlled by, by the governments and well, that's, that's how I started to get involved in this, um, organization <inaudible>. And a year later I started, uh, the youth group within, um, <inaudible>, uh, the following year, I did an internship at Alice network. And then at the Cato Institute, I think that was 2011 or 2012. Um, but, but from then on, I started to write articles, books. I began to give conferences exposing what was going on and what was happening in Latin America, in Argentina and Venezuela, Cuba. Speaker 1 00:05:57 And, um, the problems are caused by, by my socialism in the region and in about Iran. Um, one of the, one of the first books that I read, uh, more precisely when I was 17 years old, uh, was a virtual selfishness <inaudible>. And I think that book, it changed my life. It completely changed my life, having contact with, with this, uh, kind of lecture at such a young age, um, and, uh, such a crucial, you know, an important moment in my life that that changed, that changed my mentality forever. And, and with Iran, I understood the importance of, uh, what she, what she called, uh, uh, rational egoism, right? <inaudible> the importance of, of, of recent, uh, the importance of defending freedom against all kinds of collectivism. And that's how, you know, more and more, I went deeper and deeper into these, uh, ideas. And, and I think I run was, was fundamental in, in, as we always say, you know, uh, very often one is introduced to it, to the world of, of, of Liberty ideas, uh, by the hand of, of her books and her publications, or even her videos. So that's, that's how I, I started. Yes. Speaker 0 00:07:24 Yeah. But interesting, because often I'd say the vast majority are introduced through her perfection, but there, there are, uh, you know, a handful that are, um, first attracted magnetised by the non-fiction and it's usually the virtue of selfishness and, and those are hardcore. Those are, you know, they, they don't like, oh yeah, I've read the virtue of selfishness. And then I just went on to do other things. So, um, so that's, that's interesting. Uh, but that is what first informed your views. And, uh, you and I recently were, um, on the, the seminar that, that you organized, that Sociedad, uh, Atlas organized, um, in partnership with our friends at C and Espanol. Uh, and, uh, that was amazing. I mean, Sociodad Atlas is, is just a few months old. Uh, we had, I think roughly 360 people that, that signed on that attended the two and a half hour conference. Speaker 0 00:08:33 Um, and, uh, and I can say from, from personal experience and to Mela is someone English or Spanish, uh, who really, uh, understands sort of front and back and can speak with, with great, uh, authority, um, and profound understanding about, about objectivism. So, um, I'm really excited about our, our work together at associate dot Atlas. Tell us a little bit about your vision for associate dot Atlas. Um, I know of course how it, how it began, but you've brought so many really interesting speakers on your Instagram lives, on the converse Scona is similar to this kind of format. Um, also, you know, the, the Instagram takeovers that, that you're doing every week. Speaker 1 00:09:24 Yeah, I totally agree. I think, um, socio that is growing super fast and I think that this is something we really needed, uh, you know, we Latin America in countries like Venezuela countries, like Cuba countries, like even Mexico that now is, you know, falling into, uh, this collectivist ideas with, uh, <inaudible> with this president that they have a populous president that they have Mexico, or even Purdue, you know, that they, they just elected this, um, communist president called Beto Castillo. And I think, I think there, there are a lot of things to do in Latin America. And I think sociology classes is going to be, um, vital for, you know, for, for this, this, this kind of bottles that we, we need to, to give in, in the region. So, um, so yeah, just like you said, we're, we're growing super fast and, um, and I'm very, very excited about all the things that, and all the projects that are about to come. Uh, so, so, yeah. Speaker 0 00:10:22 Yeah. And I think we got an unexpected kind of boost recently with what happened in Cuba, uh, and aunt Nella. And I spoke also, uh, together recently at freedom fast in South Dakota, um, and Nella gave a speech as at the opening ceremony of freedom fast, um, about what was happening, what is happening in Cuba and also about, um, the situation in Latin America overall, um, also banks to, to aunt Nella and also to, uh, Vanessa for us who is our director of strategy and outreach for Sociodad Atlas. Um, they put us in touch with the producer for the, uh, song Patriot Lavita for those of you who don't know, uh, Katriana Vita has become the Anthem of the Cuban uprising. It really grew out of the, uh, the San Isidro movement in Cuba. Um, so talk to us a little bit, uh, and Anella about what, you know, in terms of, um, what is is going on in, uh, in Cuba right now, uh, to the best of your understanding. And I know they've cut off, uh, internet access for, for the people there. Uh, so what do you think the prospects are for freedom going forward? Speaker 1 00:11:59 Yeah, and I think it's also very important to talk a little bit, a little bit about the history of Cuba and what's happening in Cuba and, and how, um, you know, the entire world, the entire region we, we are, we're not, you know, we're, we're just thinking about Cuba. Like it's just a simple country or another country, but the real problem of Latin America is right there is in Cuba because you cannot understand Venezuela if you don't understand what's going on in Cuba, because Venezuela is a consequence of doing basically nothing with, uh, with his dictatorship, a dictatorship that, you know, has been there for more than 62 years. So, um, you know, that on January 1st, 1959, and then a Castro and even Castro, they, you know, together, we would shake it Vita. We were talking about Shay about a few minutes ago, uh, but they backed by the Soviet union. Speaker 1 00:12:56 They took control of Cuba replacing basically one dictatorship with, uh, another, with another dictatorship and they just took power. And the thing is that, um, that dictatorship remains in place today. But in that time, um, you know, when newspapers were confiscated, companies were expropriated, communications were monitored, you know, Marxism at some point was, was introduced to the island and check it Vida, this, this, uh, this killer, he run like one year that it was a detention center where a torture and executions, uh, to place. And, uh, as you know, the firing, the firing squads were for basically everyone, right? Uh, anti-communist uh, anti-revolutionary Afro-Cubans homosexuals and anyone who, who they didn't fit the idea of, of, um, you know, th the marks new men, right. Uh, so when the Soviet union fell, uh, the same happened with the Soviet subsidy that Cuba was receiving from, from the, the Soviet union. Speaker 1 00:13:57 But by then the Castro's basically feed 80 Gusto. Um, they have, you know, absolute power and that's when, uh, <inaudible> and Lula Silva, former president of Brazil, and one of the most corrupt politicians in history of Latin America and even the world. Uh, but they found that photo is south powder, like the cell pellet form. And today that's also affiliated with the <inaudible> from Mexico, Pedro Castillo, from Pedro, and even Alberto Fernandez from Argentina. And of course, Nicola Luda from, from Venezuela. But the thing is what happens next, right? Because Venezuela replaces the Soviet union and through the process of the Bolivarian revolution executed by, by who were Chavez, it becomes, uh, like the money machine. Thanks obviously, to, to sky patrol prizes, um, that oxygenates the Castro regime and all this, you know, added, if you want to, you know, add other things that, that are in bold there. Speaker 1 00:15:03 Um, you know, the business of he's not make terrorism, uh, their relations with Hezbollah and Hamas, the role of drug trafficking, because I think that's a consequence of a failed war on drugs in Latin America. And of course the marches gorillas of Columbia. So just a last fire in ELN LN, and you know, that they are all enemies of, of, of the free world. But if you go to the history of Cuba, you will see that before the revolution QRIS, uh, per capita income was equal to that of Spain and in higher than that, of Puerto Rico. And today it is six times less, uh, than Spain and five times less than, than Puerto Rico. So if you want, you know, even more examples, um, you can see that before Castro, uh, Cuba was the largest sugar producer in the world in today. It produces only as much as it did in the 19th century, but just maybe just one, one small detailed for, for those who argue that the QA is poor because of a blockade or, or the embodiment. Speaker 1 00:16:06 Um, you know, Cuba is poor because it's communist. Um, and in fact, the United States, uh, the United States is, uh, Cuba's sixth largest trading partner when it comes to imports, which explains that there is no such thing as a, as a blockade or an embargo. And if we appeal to, I mean, if we appeal to the meaning of the term, right, but in 2020 alone, the us exported 157 million in food products to Cuba. Uh, second only to, to Brazil who sold 158 or 59 millions. So the thing is that there are trade sanctions and sanctions in which I think, in fact, it doesn't completely prohibit trade between the U S and Cuban companies. Um, but if the question is whether we should add those sections or not, I think the answer is yes, because it serves, uh, the Cuban regime as a very convenient excuse or even an argument that explains the misery that, that the same regime has caused with his marks, his policies. Speaker 1 00:17:15 So Cuba is poor because it doesn't want to trade with the world. It doesn't have a productive sector that generates a wealth, you know, because, you know, incentives were basically destroyed when, when private property was a volition. So, um, to give you another example, the average salary of a Cuban is about $13 a month. Hopefully, um, if, if you want to buy, I don't know, a, literally a liter of milk in Cuba, if you can buy it, uh, it costs about $3 and 250, um, uh, grams of, uh, of, um, of cheese. For example, if you, if we wanted to see this, these kind of things, it costs $30. So to buy a chemo of meat, for example, assuming it is available, it would cost you about three and half months of income. So Cubans are in prison, they are torture. They are, you know, killed, or they even disappear for the scenting and questioning, um, and authority that I think is a legitimate. Speaker 1 00:18:17 And of course it's immoral. Um, but after all Cuba is, um, is a country in the world with the highest rates of imprisonment, uh, for political crimes, political crimes, right? That's, that's what the regime calls the fact of thinking, uh, differently. But, but now, as you mentioned, we see these products and rallies inside and even outside the island, um, and the entire world, I think finally seems to be turning insights on, on Cuba after, after what, more than a half a century, uh, of silence to the suffering of a, of a community that is subjected to, to one of the long, longest, uh, Taiwanese, uh, we have known in, in, in human civilization. So that's 62 years, Jennifer, 62 years. And there are many factors that I think can explain the, the awakening of, of the Cuban on people. We can start from. I always say two points of inflection for as the humanitarian crisis that Cubans have been suffering for this six decades, and which of course has been aggravated by the COVID-19 crisis. Speaker 1 00:19:24 Um, but second, there is this, this song that you mentioned, and, and I think that's very important because, but the Navy that it changed the, the, the entire situation, uh, in, in Cuba. Um, so, but they meet up at some point, came to, you know, irritate the, the regime, uh, to wake up the island and to raise the voice of Cubans who have been asking, you know, for freedom for more than half a century. And that are brutally repressed by a system that operates all over all over Latin America. So, um, so yeah, six weeks, uh, six decades later, um, Cuban musicians like Michael <inaudible> and John dwell in December when, or, and even <inaudible>, they courageously challenge, um, this regime and awaken a feeling of freedom never seen before in, in, in this history. So this, I think is maybe the beginning of the end of a very long history of, of suffering, uh, hunger, exile, and even this. And I think we really, we really need to, to spread the message about what's happening in Cuba right now. So that's, that's basically what's going on, uh, there right now. Speaker 0 00:20:42 Yeah. And, you know, it's, um, it's interesting. And I want to make sure that our viewers don't miss the fact that we are bringing to our gala on November four in Malibu, we're honoring Peter teal and, and, uh, we have Palmer Luckey speaking, as well as we've long ago announced. Um, but just a few days ago, we got the word that, um, the S the three or four artists who are in exile, who are not, um, in imprisoned as political dissidents in Cuba. So, um, I think, uh, El spunky and, uh, Sorbo are the ones that are in jail right now in, in Cuba. And so we have hinted Arizona December when, oh, and year 12, who are going to be making that trip and who are going to be performing that song live at our, at our gala. And, um, you know, it's, it's interesting as you described what was, what was the spark? And, uh, I, you know, this, this San Sidra movement that, that happened, it was because of art. It really is a Testament to the, um, the power of art, the role of art in, um, inspiring people, waking people up, uh, and showing them that, you know, a different future, a different possibility. Um, so Speaker 1 00:22:21 Yeah, one of the branches of, you know, uh, objective is philosophy, right? The importance of art and, you know, to keep promoting ideas. Speaker 0 00:22:29 Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it's one thing to, to kind of understand it philosophically and intellectually, we all understand it in terms of the power of iron ranch fiction and how that helped us to see the world, uh, and see ourselves in it, in a different light. But then to, to see, you know, as, as the, the words of that song, you know, uh, 60, 61 years, cause I, I guess it came out, um, last year and, uh, the, the dominoes have, have fallen. So it's really amazing. So you, we spoke about the, uh, the, uh, trade sanctions a little bit. What, uh, what do you think the role of the United States should, should be? Um, you know, there, there are some that, that would like us to take a more active role or at least allow, uh, American citizens to, to provide more support and aid. Um, what's your view? Speaker 1 00:23:37 Well, when it comes to, to like economic support or even aid, I don't think that's a, that's a solution to Latin American problems because that's, you know, we, we are even paying the consequences of that with, with corrupt politicians that take all that money and they just do nothing with us, um, you know, funds that, that go to, uh, to Latin America. But what I think is that we should keep promoting, um, free markets. We should keep promoting, um, this kind of, of, of ideas and even the idea of rule of law. I think, I think the U us history has a lot of things to, um, to teach, to, to let an American institutions into Latin American politicians. You know, we in Latin America, in the region, we basically don't understand the importance of rule of law. And if you don't understand the importance of rule of law, I mean, that's, that's why we are doing that bad in Latin America, but when it comes to maybe, you know, to see that the, the, the relationship between the United States and in Latin America, even when, when we see the changes with, you know, different administrations and different governments, you know, even though they're Democrats or Republicans or whatever, I never see like, like big changes there, I think. Speaker 1 00:24:59 And if, when it comes to the last, you know, two decades, at some point, I think us policy towards Latin America has always been very, very similar. And, um, I mean, regardless, you know, to, you know, have the type of, of, of administration. And if, if the United States, this is something I always say, but if the United States had wanted to, um, they, I think they, they, they would have done something about Cuba or Venezuela a long, long time ago. I mean, they had the opportunity to do something with Venezuela, but it didn't happen. So I think the solution for our countries in, in Latin America, it has to come from, from within, uh, our countries. It should come from, from inside and, you know, inside Latin America. And I think that maybe interventions or even media targeted interventions, having worked in the region in, I think, and this is, I think this is so, so very important because those kinds of interventions have plays the image of the United States or, or even capitalism as a great evil, um, when in fact it is not. And I think we, we, we really need to learn from, from the institutions that made the United States, um, this amazing, uh, experiment of, of, of Liberty and the institutions and the values that even I run admired from, from the founding fathers. And, um, that, you know, have been, I think, lost over the decades as, as, as we have seen, you know, the size of, of the United States government, uh, increasing. Speaker 0 00:26:41 So I want to remind all of you who are watching to, um, to ask your questions of aunt Nella, you can ask them in English or in Spanish, um, because, uh, this is, I'm not going to say this is a rare opportunity. Um, maybe, uh, uh, an opportunity at least to have her in English because every week she's, she's doing interviews, um, for associate DOB Atlas in, uh, in Spanish. Um, so go ahead, type your questions into the chat, and we will get to them as many of them as, as we can, uh, antenna what's, what's the coverage been of, uh, of Cuba and the situation there in, uh, in the rest of Latin America. I mean, is it, is it markedly different than what you're seeing in the United States? I mean, you talked about sort of, there are, uh, satellite countries or countries that are on this axis supporting each other. So how do they view events in Cuba? Speaker 1 00:27:41 Well, I think, and I, and I always say this because I think that, and even the history, you know, it, it, uh, it makes us understand the importance of see Cuba as what it really is. And in the region, we don't understand the impact of Cuba policies, uh, you know, all over these 62 years of, of dictatorship. We were, you know, thinking that well, Cuba, that's just a tiny island, what can happen there? It's just, nothing's going to happen. They don't have that power, but then you see, as I told you, they, then you see Venezuela and to understand Venezuela, you have to understand Cuba because Venezuela is just another consequence of Cuba. Um, right now, when it comes to, to the people that, you know, you know, who is empowering in, in, in, in a country like Venezuela, and <inaudible> all this, um, this, this is dictators. Speaker 1 00:28:41 Um, and even over Chavez, I mean, when you, when you study the history of, uh, and, and, you know, when you see the events of, of, uh, who were Chavez through the history of, of Venezuela and even Latin America, um, basically is like feeling Gusto made over Chavez feel custom-made, um, Lula Silva, the Kirschner's, uh, <inaudible>, um, a Wal-Mart Alice in Bolivia. So it's, everything starts in Cuma. And, and why I say this because they have, uh, what I call or what we can call the th the most optionality, um, that they, that they took from, from the Soviet union. Right. And that's how they, you know, they know what to do, and they know how to keep the power and they know how to manipulate institutions and they know how to control your, um, so I mean, he's 62 years after 62 years of, of the same people, the same government, the same regime is like, there's nothing you can do. Speaker 1 00:29:52 Um, so I, I, I really think that this kind of prod is, uh, with, with <inaudible> and people, you know, trying to, to face this dictatorship. That's, that's very important because this is something we don't see. We don't see very often, um, in Cuba, in Cuba, because in Venezuela, they protest every, basically every single year. Um, but nothing changes, nothing changes because they, you know, this regime has absolute power and there's like a, like a handbook of, you know, uh, how to take power in Latin America. So you start, um, you know, them and I sing the, the entrepreneur you'll start, uh, you know, attacking the institutions are talking, um, the, the media. And it's like, it's like, they just do the same in every single country. And they learned that, uh, from, from Cuba, because Cuba learned that from, uh, from the Soviet union. So that's, that's basically the, the, the, the problem that, that we have. Speaker 1 00:30:56 So, so Latin America, I think, is, uh, is in, in, in a constant game of, of bad government. Sometimes it seems that we see the light, um, but that only, you know, we'd lasts for a while. And, and that happens because we have a collectivist or, uh, the Matic mentality, uh, full of, you know, mysticism, paternalism esoterism, um, you know, we, we, we became dependent on the government and we believe that everything has to be solved by the government. We think that the government should be there for, you know, anything, the government is the solution to every single problem that we have in Latin America. So if you have a problem, if you would, um, you know, if you cannot find you to one and, and employ, or employment or something, it's just, the government is going to give you the solution. So, Speaker 0 00:31:54 But what, like practical, uh, I mean, at this point, you know, with even Venezuela previously having subsidized these, uh, countries like Cuba with oil revenues now, it's, you know, outlets, shrugged in Venezuela and the engineers have fled, or they're teaching English on you talking to people like me. Uh, so they're, they're, you know, they're importing, um, federal from, from Iran and from other countries. So, um, I, I guess, you know, in, in what way, like specifically are, is, is Cuba leading to these other outcomes, because it's, it's clear at this point that, I mean, the economy has failed that, that people are living in poverty. Uh, you know, the, the Biden administration early on tried to say that these protests are, are just about, uh, lack of access to vaccines. And it was such a shocking, um, lie, uh, in terms of what the real motive for the pro protests were that you almost forgot to ask the question, Hmm, wait a second, wait, wasn't this, the country with the financial analyze healthcare, uh, that's supposed to be providing all of the healthcare needs. Why would there be a vaccine shortages in that country? So my question is like, what is government in these countries providing? I mean, are people getting housing? Are they getting, you know, healthcare? Are they, are they getting jobs, um, that are given by the government? Like, what actually are they, even if it's a very minimal level of, of assistance, because it almost seems like they come in promising and maybe they're able to fulfill that promise for a few years, but then things are completely falling apart. Speaker 1 00:33:57 Yeah. They don't even, they don't even receive, uh, assistance or, or big, you know, subsidies or even solutions, or even healthcare or housing or whatever. It's just this kind of, of regimes, you know, what they do, they, um, and even communist regimes, and this is something they have done in every single country, in every single experience of, of communism. They follow, you know, Antonio Gramsci this, uh, Italian communist, um, that he was, he, he used to talk about the, the, the, the cultural battle and how, uh, the communists needed to, you know, get power by controlling education and controlling, um, you know, the media in, in what people think. So that's basically what, what they do in, in Latin America. That's basically what, what Cuba is doing right now in, in, in, in the, in the country and in the rest of, of the region. Speaker 1 00:34:59 Um, so they tried to, to, you know, create another reality. So you may, you know, you maybe think that, that that's basically, what's, what's good. Right. So that's the only thing, you know, the only thing, you know, is, uh, you know, <inaudible>, uh, fighting, you know, against imperialism and fighting against the, the, the, the, the evil of, you know, that, that the United States represents for them. Uh, so they, it's, it's a very populist, um, way, uh, of, of, you know, understanding power in, in, in Latin America. Um, they are constantly, uh, finding an enemy, uh, from inside and outside. So it's always, you know, it could be, I dunno, capitalism, globalization, the markets, uh, the, I don't know, the, the, the entrepreneurs, uh, the media, and it's, it's always attacking someone. They always need to find an enemy. Um, you know, when, when it comes to their, uh, their speech, they just always mentioned an enemy. Speaker 1 00:36:10 Um, oh, it's a very populist, uh, dynamic of, of executing, uh, power in of course, democratic. So, so as I was telling you that, that we believe in Latin America, that, that everything has to be sold, um, by the government. And, and that's not right. And I think that's a problem because we have, we even have weak institutions, we have governments that they just do whatever they want, Venezuela, for example, they, uh, has already had, um, uh, 27 constitutions. I mean, can you imagine that the United States has, uh, 27 different constitutions? I mean, that's, that's just crazy. That's changing, uh, you know, the, there, the rules of the game, basically every single day. Um, but as we always say, even, even if you, if you live in Latin America and you want to leave to, I don't know, another, another country in Latin America, that's basically, I mean, immigrating in Latin America is like changing ship cabins on the Titanic because sooner or later you drown it's, uh, it's always, I mean, that's why the Exodus of people leaving the region, you know, looking for, for, for other places is something that happens all the time. Speaker 1 00:37:23 I mean, even if, even if you see what's going on in Venezuela and people, you know, leaving the country and, and Venezuelans, you know, they don't go to Cuba, they don't go to Argentina. I mean, they just try to escape to countries where they see that, that they can find institutions, um, that are able to protect, you know, property rights, uh, or even the, the, the, the, their, you know, the money in the investments that they have. Um, so yeah, I think, unfortunately, we, we keep making bad choices in, in that in America, but that's also, you know, a problem that we have with, with the, this big government mentality that, that we have, and that, that we, that we believe, because we believe that the lights of this kind of, of, of governments that try to manipulate, uh, the reality and they want to, you know, create a parallel reality. Um, so that's, that's, that's part of, of, of, of the populous game, I think. Speaker 0 00:38:32 So we have a question, uh, from YouTube Scott, uh, appreciates the work that we're doing, um, wants to know what kind of, what kind of evidence are you seeing for, um, Iran's influence in Latin America? Uh, you know, w where are we starting from? How does it grow? Speaker 1 00:38:58 Well, I think I run this, her ideas are, are very important in, in that Numerica. And I see young people, you know, you know, even every single day, uh, I, I receive a lot of messages from, from people, you know, uh, in, in Latin America that, that they just, they just love Iran when they discover, uh, her, her, her ideas and, and the, I think that's important because she, she promoted the importance of, of, of private sector of the private sector. And that's something we don't do in that in America, because we keep punishing, uh, the, the, you know, the successful people that we have in the region. I mean, if you're an entrepreneur and you have, uh, you know, your, your own, your own business, and you, you know, gave a lot of, um, you know, when you create, even when you create wealth in Latin America, they just see that as a, as a bad thing, it's, it's, you know, creating wealth, that's, that's just bad. Speaker 1 00:40:07 You just don't have to do that in Latin America. And w I mean, if we have that mentality, and if we think that the way to, you know, to solve poverty is by redistributing, uh, wealth and, you know, you know, creating new Texas and, um, more regulations and more bureaucracy. I mean, we will never, we will never, you know, get a, a better, a better region. Um, so, so that's, I always say this because I think that's a, a problem that we have with this big government, um, mentality. But I think, I think her ideas are, are growing super fast in Latin America. And I think that, uh, the, this challenge that we have associated with that lens is, is very important. Um, yeah, Speaker 0 00:41:00 One of the things that I know we're both hoping to do is that, you know, in the past, um, the, the efforts to introduce people have been maybe a little bit more academic. Uh, it's, it's been about promoting the books, which at the end of the day, that that is what we want, uh, as, as well. And, and there are new additions of Iran's folks in Spanish, which we're really excited about, but if you also look at the data in terms of, of book purchasing and literacy and reading habits in Latin America, that might suggest that that is not a primary way that you want to go. Um, and, uh, and then also just given the fact that we're, we're starting from a baseline of virtually zero, and in terms of awareness, I think that, um, the social media means that, that you're putting out the animated videos, um, and broadening it also as well too, to not just be about Iran, but also about classical liberalism, um, as well. So we have another question here from, uh, Paolo Geier and, uh, on YouTube, he asks how long until the Cuba Cuban government will, will fall the pandemic and popular demonstrations are exposing a weak government. So, Speaker 1 00:42:31 Well, that's a, that's a big question. Um, we never know it could happen, you know, tomorrow or in 10 years. Uh, but you know, this kind of, of dictators, you know, this kind of, of, of, um, big governments in, in, in communist regimes, you know, it could fall apart any moment anytime. So I think it's all about, you know, keep, keep telling the world what's, what's going on in, in, in, in the region. I mean, we, and even in Argentina, I mean, we're, we're facing a big, a huge problem with, uh, with big government. Um, but you have, you know, to, to add this thing to, to the equation, because it's big government, weak institutions, uh, we don't have free markets. It's all about, you know, protectionism and Kaneisha aneurysm and all these, these horrible, you know, ideas that, uh, that destroyed the incentives that destroyed, uh, the, the, the creation of, of, of wealth. Speaker 1 00:43:41 But, um, Argentina ISA is a case that I always like to mention because Argentina used to be a very prosperous country. You know, the, the, the, the, the famous and the prosperous Argentina, the 19th century was one of the richest countries in the world, you know, uh, and at some point it, it, it all, uh, much of its early success to the ideas of, of <inaudible>. I always like to talk about, about <inaudible> because you know, this political, uh, philosopher, he was hugely influential in the, in the drafting of the, the 1853, uh, constitution of Argentina constitution. That in fact, uh, it was based on the ideas, um, you know, uh, the constitution of the United States of America. And we in Argentina, we did well as a country when we, you know, we bet on, um, good ideas when we understood the importance of rule of law and free markets. Speaker 1 00:44:47 And, and when we understood the importance of, you know, opening ourselves to, um, to the world, but yeah, much of that growth, and not only in the agricultural sector, because that's important, but much of this growth that Argentina saw was driven by foreign investment in the country. And now we don't have that. We don't even have that in, in, in the rest of the countries, in Latin America, because, I mean, if you think, I don't know if you're an entrepreneur, or if you have a big amount of, of wealth and you want to invest in a country and, you know, you see that, I don't know, see a country like Venezuela that already had this, uh, 27 constitutions or Argentina then. I mean, you have to be every single day trying to understand what's going to happen and, uh, what our president is going to do tomorrow and how he's going to, you know, to change your, your plans. Speaker 1 00:45:49 Um, so it was like you don't invest in a country like that. You just, you put your money where you think that is going to be, you know, uh, protect it. Right. Uh, because, you know, investment, it likes, uh, to, to, to build it. Yeah, absolutely. So, so, uh, the main 1940s arrival into power of, of on Domingo and his ideology, you know, Peronism, uh, which is usually simply, you know, described, uh, as, uh, as populous, but is, I always say is better, uh, seen as a variety of, of, of, of, of fascism, right? Because he, he, he really admire Benito Mussolini in Italy. Um, so Peronism drove Argentina just like Chevy's small. They had in Venezuela, or <inaudible> in Cuba. Uh, Peronism drove Argentina into poverty and became basically, you know, the basis of a political system, which is still in place, um, today in the country. Speaker 1 00:46:53 So, uh, to understand Quando Mingo Paragon is important to remember that he was admire of Benito Mussolini and, and, you know, fascism of course by extension, but he spent time in Mosul in his Eataly IX, you know, experiencing fascism, um, firsthand. And he was fascinated by the figure of, of, of Alucia. Uh, so, so, uh, when he returned to Argentina, after he's visiting, uh, his visit to Italy, um, Paran was put in charge of, um, you know, the <inaudible> labor and social security. And he used that position to promote the interests of, uh, the trade unions. And he cemented, uh, an Alliance with the unions, including importantly, that the powerful, uh, railway workers union. And that was to be, you know, critical both in the, in the shaping of Peronism and its hold on power. Uh, in fact members shaped, uh, of, of the trade unions grew from just over a half a million in, in 1945 to nearly 2 million in 1949. So predominant cages took power and now we just have the same people there, uh, in, in Argentina, if you want to win a lecture, you just have to say, you are a parents and they will vote you. So, so it's all about big government, always about big government. Speaker 0 00:48:24 Well, we hope at some point, you know, we did, um, one of our most popular drama, my life videos. Uh, my name is Dennis Suela, which, uh, reached over a million views in English. Um, we have it in Spanish and I believe we're about to come out with it as well in, in Portuguese, um, Phil, Phil coats, uh, supporter of the Atlas society. Thank you. Um, he is asking us on zoom. Why rammed in Latin America, uh, rather than in Europe or east Asia or South Africa or south Asia or Africa, uh, more potential in that region? Well, I can, I can take a crack at that, Phil. So, um, first of all, we are translating, um, our videos into other languages in those markets. And in fact, the all time records for national society draw my life video is 8 million views, uh, and that was from an Arabic translation, but they are translated into Japanese, into Vietnamese, um, and, uh, Portuguese, uh, French, uh, German. Speaker 0 00:49:41 So we, we are not neglecting the rest of the world, but in terms of, of Latin America, um, I think that it was an easy choice for us, not just because we did an experiment and we saw that, uh, that they, they did really well, but it's our neighbor, you know, so it's right here. And I think that there is a self-interest for America to have good relations, uh, with, with our neighbors, um, as well there, um, there are a lot of, uh, people who immigrated, uh, from Latin America to the United States. So there's a cultural affinity. Um, we have, uh, Enrique on our team whose, uh, family's from this from Mexico. Um, and I think that while there are a lot of cultural differences, uh, there is still enough commonality between our cultures that, you know, um, we have not just the geographic barrier, uh, but you know, we, we also, in some other countries, um, there would be also very big cultural barriers as well that we'd be trying to overcome and we have Antonella. So, you know, it's a kind of a no brainer. Um, so yes. Um, another question we have here, uh, you had talked a little bit about, uh, reg regulations. Um, and we have a question so was asking us earlier, he doesn't have much of a problem explaining what the welfare state is and what's wrong with it, but yes, uh, difficulty in explaining what the regulatory state is and what is wrong with it in, in contrast, uh, antebellum. You want to take a crack at that? Speaker 1 00:51:35 Yeah, yeah. Um, so I think that, um, and, and this is, this is a way to understand, uh, to understand Latin America, right? Because the governments that we have, they keep going, you know, into this path of, uh, new regulations and, uh, bureaucracy and this big government that they just keep, you know, creating and they increase the size of the government, but, but I want to relate this, this question, you know, and to the idea of, of Argentina and the, the, the, what we call the, the, the corporatism, right. That it's all about, all about control because, um, and it happened in Argentina, you know, when we basically bet only someones with paradise, uh, um, the, the states, you know, universities, uh, the media it's, it's like everywhere, and they do that through regulations. They do that through new laws. Um, so now you'll see, for example, you know, university professors, um, in, in, in, in Latin America, or even in Argentina, um, they just keep promoting this kind of ideas because we have, uh, uh, education. Speaker 1 00:52:50 Um, the system that we have in, in Latin America is controlled by the government. They just decide what you, what you study or what you don't wanna study. Um, so, so it's all about that then in Argentina, when, when a fundal Mingo, but don't when he was alive, uh, you know, university professors who didn't support him were basically fired. Um, and then, you know, we saw the, the import, uh, restrictions, uh, increasing in Argentina, then, you know, the, the, how they destroy their rule of law, because you'll the Supreme court. Um, in that moment, he'd lost its autonomy. And then, you know, all this big number of <inaudible> leaders and politician that, that, that worry prison. And if it's still happening, it keeps happening all the time in every single day experiment of, of populism that, that you, that you see in, in, in Latin America. Speaker 1 00:53:47 So, um, so when you increase the size of the state through this kind of regulations, that's how you do it, destroying, uh, the incentives of people who just want to, you know, live their life. And they just don't want to receive something from the state thinking that, you know, we always have to remember this because when, when we say, oh, oh yeah, I received money from the state, or I receive a subsidy from the state. That's not, that's not the state because there is no such thing as a state money. It's always taxpayers' money. Um, so the government can get, you know, you know, has different ways to, to, to get the money that they will use to, you know, to, to give the subsidies and start with, with this, uh, populist, uh, in registry, bidding, uh, policies. Uh, so it's all about, you know, that, that is never good. Speaker 1 00:54:43 Uh, then you have, um, like the, the first consequence of, of, of, um, printing money that is inflation, that we see that in every single country in Latin America, I mean, Venezuela is a, I don't know, basically a million percent of inflation. Argentina is 50%. Um, and, and that's something that we always see, and then you have taxation. So the government, it, I mean, governments, they just don't create wealth. They just, they just have the, you know, the chance to, you know, get money from other people because they just, they, they that's the way they do it, that's their modus operandi. And they just leave from another people, uh, if they want to, you know, give promoting, uh, their, their, their populous ideas. And I always say that if it was, you know, if, if subsidies are the solution to poverty, um, well, Venezuela or Argentina should be the richest countries in the world, but they are not because that's not, that's not the solution. Speaker 1 00:55:46 I mean, you solve poverty by, uh, creating wealth, not by destroying wealth or destroying or them. And I seen, uh, the, the, the entrepreneurs. So, so it's, it's all about that. It's all about big governments and, and the way they, you know, uh, even the way they expand, uh, public expenditure, I mean, in Argentina and it happened in 1946, um, uh, it, it amounted to 25% of GDP. Um, and, and in 1948, it was 42% of the GDP. And that was Peronism, that's, that's what they did. And in public spending, well, yeah, we can say that we just can't keep promoting, uh, this political ideas and the, the, the party of, uh, public expenditure, but someone has to pay it. And the one who paid for that, that's you? I mean, that's, it's always the taxpayer. Speaker 0 00:56:45 Yes. Well, and the position that we are advancing at Sociodad Atlas and the Atlas society is Iran's recommendation of a complete separation of economy and state, uh, for the same reasons, um, as the separation of church and state. And so whether or not it is, uh, uh, government intrusion in terms of redistribution as in welfare, or in terms of regulation, we just had a live example for the past couple of years of the regulatory state of you can work. You can't work, you're essential, you know, so, and we'll see how well that's gone. Now. We are out of time. We've got, uh, just, just a couple of minutes. I want to encourage those of you who are watching us to please come and join us on, uh, November 4th in Malibu, uh, where we're going to be honoring Peter teal. And also we're going to have this incredible performance live performance of the Anthem of the Cuban uprising <inaudible> and right before that, uh, auntie Yella, we, she and I have to catch up, but, um, but I think the plan is that, uh, that she's going to do a round table discussion with some of, some of the artists and, and delve a little bit deeper into some of the ideas that we've discussed today. Speaker 0 00:58:15 So aunt Nella, thank you very much, um, for, for joining us. Thank you, Jennifer. It was a pleasure and, and thanks all of you. And as always, if you are enjoying, uh, the work of the Atlas society and want to support, uh, as well, our efforts in Latin America under Antonella Martin's leadership, please consider making a tax deductible donation. We will put that link to donate in to the chat box. And, uh, and we will see you next week when I'm going to be interviewing, uh, Robert Krasinski of, uh, of the <inaudible> letter. And, uh, so thank you. <inaudible> thanks everyone.

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